Sonic the Hedgehog 2: Neo West Island

Shade · Nov 2, 2005

Okay. Here's the deal. This is a Sonic 2 hack (duh) that will consist of palette changes and original level layouts by yours truly. Nothing too special, but I am planning on putting my heart into this hack and commiting many long hours to its completion (spent most of the day in school sketching EHZ Act 1's layout). Keep in mind this is my first hack ever.

At any rate, with all these changes to the zones, I am planning on naming the zones as well. With that in mind, I need to know if there is a program out there that lets me retitle the zone title cards at the begginging of an act. Could anyone help me with this? I have searched myself for a while now, with no luck (I am going to kick myself if this feature is already included in a program I alreayd have). Sorry for the n00bish question, and thanks in advance.

I will try to update sometime in the near future with screenshots, and eventually a demo for evaluation.

Tweaker · Nov 3, 2005

You mean a new title card each act?

That'll take some reprogramming. You'd need to have it be more specific in the code for title cards. In other words, have it check by zone AND act, rather than simply zone like it does by default.

Count on relocating the index for title cards though, as you'll need to make it twice as big to accomodate for the new cards. Once you do though, =P

If you don;t understand a word I said, that's okay. I didn't either when I was in your position a year back. Just try and absorb the info around here and the archives, and eventually you'll get your terminology in order. Hacking isn't easy at first, but once you get it, everything seems easy. :D

Matter of fact, that may be why some Tech Members find most tasks easy, simply because they are used to dong stuff like that, not even aware that it's hard to the normal newbie. So I apologize if that makes you feel bad, as it shouldn't. Hell, you may even end up pwning me someday.

Good luck with your hack. I'm sure you'll prevail with what you're trying to accomplish in the end.

stormislandgal · Nov 3, 2005

Well, if you just want a new title card for both acts of Emerald Hill, an old version of ESE has a title card editor packaged in.

Good luck.

Shade · Nov 3, 2005

Thanks for the support Tweaker (and for your suggestion as well ThunderSpeed, I'll look into that). I'm not too sure if I made myself entirely clear. As of now, I don't want to completely redo the title cards, I just wnat to change what the text says, like changing Emerald Hill Zone to a different name but with the original title card intact.

If that's what you guys thought I meant in the first place, then I guess I'm screwed until I figure out some more in-depth hacking/programming :P

Of course, if it simply was just a case of missinterpertation, I should very much like to know how to simply change what the text says.

Tweaker · Nov 3, 2005

If simple zone name changing is all you're trying to do, then ESEII is the easiest way to get the job done. It has extended character support, no ROM shifting, and complies with the newbie act of 2003. =P

Only problem is, you have to extend your ROM first to use it all. I suggest putting your hack through SonED (the original) first and extendng the ROM. Then, open it in ESEII and use the Title Card editor.

ESEII has many other newbie friendly features as well, but I suggest NOT -- under any cirumstances -- using the level editor or porter in it. This wll totally flip flop all your data, and make your hack VERY prone to corruption (trust me on this one... I know from experience). I suggest using ESEII for random variable editing, and SonED for all your level needs. Things will work out a lot better and easier in the end for you.

Also, I want to ask... You know hex, right? Hex is neccesarry these days to do both manual tweaking and to easy data porting. You should learn, and become familiar wiith hex before you proceed. The whole process will go a lot smoother if you do.

Rika Chou · Nov 3, 2005

Tweaker, when ESE is used for anything other than pallets then it will shift the ROM.

When you use the title card editor, then it needs to shift the ROM in order to have longer Zone names.

Shade · Nov 3, 2005

Also, I want to ask... You know hex, right? Hex is neccesarry these days to do both manual tweaking and to easy data porting. You should learn, and become familiar wiith hex before you proceed. The whole process will go a lot smoother if you do.
Click to expand...

I am a bit embarrased to admit this, but at the moment, no, I know next to nothing about Hex. Just that its comprised of combinations of numbers that are directly related to data in the game. I know nothing of the finer points of how it works or anything like that. I am, however, making it a priority to read up on it. Any good reccomendations for places to do so?

Also, I'm a bit confused. If I have this correct so far, Tweaker says I should extend my hack through SonED, then open it in ESEII and use the title card editor (but do not use it under any circumstances for level editing or porting). However, Rika says when ESE is used for anything other than palettes it will shift the rom. I'm afraid I'm unfamiliar with the term "shift". Can someone explain what exactly this is, and is it something to avoid (it sounds it)?

Also, how do I proceed from here? Use ESEII or...? (btw, I'm not in a terrible rush to rename the zones. That can come last as far as I'm concerned. Im getting my level layouts and palettes out of the way first and foremost)

Rika Chou · Nov 3, 2005

I say, go ahead an use ESEII (or SonED, it's your choice. both are great). It's great to use when you first start out, and later when your more advanced you can just port your work to a clean ROM.

Just make sure you make backups, often.

Tweaker · Nov 3, 2005

Rika Chou said:

Tweaker, when ESE is used for anything other than pallets then it will shift the ROM.

When you use the title card editor, then it needs to shift the ROM in order to have longer Zone names.
Click to expand...

Odd, not for me. May have been my manual tweaks that stopped it from doing some things.

When I looked through the ROM after extending my zone names, I noticed it relocated them to a redundant spot in the ROM, rather than at the end. It's quite a fair bit too -- I reckon I could make all Title Cards about 20 characters each and things would still be fine.

Shade, shifting the ROM means moving data away from it's original location. When this happens, it makes it hard to manually locate and edit the data in hex, which you'll want to be able to do -- Especially if you plan on doing everything with ESE and porting to a clean ROM when done, like Rika suggested.

I said to use SonED only for level editing because if ESE corrupts level data, chances are it'll corrupt the whole ROM and make it hard for you to find your data to recover your past work. It's your choice, but I urge you make the one that is easier for you in the long run.

Shade · Nov 3, 2005

Thanks for the help guys. Just to let you all know, I've run into a few technical difficulties, and have decided to research a bit more before proceeding to make this easier. I was editing EHZ's objects and layout, and it was working and playing fine for a while until the rom I was editing just plain old stopped working. it wouldnt run when I tried to open it in Gens (it was working fine with my prior edits). If anyone knows what went wrong, or what kind of stupid n00bish mistake I've made, please let me know.

At any rate, I suppose the path to learning how to hack is through research and trial and error. As discouraging as it was to have my work on EHZ last night get wiped clean for some reason, Im not going to give up on it. By god I _will_ make this hack. I refuse to be completely useless to the community :P

Well that, and its actually extremely interesting to me, so I'd be doing it anyway. Just wanted to let you all know that I am still definitley working on this hack, just don't expect it anytime soon. Consider it semi-postponed.

Heran Bago · Nov 3, 2005

You probably just learned a very important lesson; always make backups.

What do you mean by "just plain old stopped working?" Do you get a big red screen when you open it in Gens?

OrdosAlpha · Nov 3, 2005

Wanna alter the title cards using an Esrael developed application? But want to avoid ESE, then the Sonic 2 Title Card Editor is your answer. It's stand alone and doesn't fuck with the ROM, downside is that the title cards have to be re-added if SonED is used.

Tweaker · Nov 3, 2005

OrdosAlpha said:

Wanna alter the title cards using an Esrael developed application? But want to avoid ESE, then the Sonic 2 Title Card Editor is your answer. It's stand alone and doesn't fuck with the ROM, downside is that the title cards have to be re-added if SonED is used.
Click to expand...

Eh... I'm a bit indifferent on this one. I used the standalone editor before, and it was really more trouble than it was worth. ESE keeps it in a redundant space in the ROM, while allowing you to extend the zone names. If the standalone worked like that, I'd gladly use it. =P

Shade · Nov 3, 2005

What do you mean by "just plain old stopped working?" Do you get a big red screen when you open it in Gens?
Click to expand...

No, no big any screens. I just turned on the emulator, told it to open the rom, and it didnt do diddly squat. that's all. Anyways, yes I have definitely learned to use backups. Do you think I should save progress as savestates or just copy the rom and save it to the copy?

At any rate, seeing as how SonED is my editor of choice as of now, and I'd like to use as few editors at a time as possible to avoid trouble, I think I'd better go with Tweaker on this. Well, time to learn the ins and outs of ESE I suppose.

Alright. Let me ask this: I'm pretty much new at rom hacking, and still have some things to research on (which I'm doing) but I do know how to re-arrange tiles, objects, and edit palettes. Very basic stuff. Since that's pretty much the majority of what my hack consists of however, what editing program would you recommend that would let me perform most or all of the above with the least amount of trouble (I've been using SonED, and it worked well until my rom crapped out)? If that's not possible, then what combination of programs do you suggest for this type of hack?

Shade · Nov 4, 2005

Sorry for the double post guys (apparently I am not authorized to edit my posts), but I just wanted to let everyone know I've taken care of pretty much all of the above problems. My hack is now going wonderfully. I figured out I should just use SonED and SonED only as much as I possibly can, instead of switching between Chaos then SonED. Yes, I know that was a very dumb move >_<. Well, trial and error, right?

Anyway, at this rate, I should have a couple of acts completely done every month or few weeks. It will be a pretty long process though (I do have school to worry about, ya know). At any rate, just wanted to let everyone know I worked out all the little kinks, and everything is progressing smoothly thus far. Thanks for the help. Next time I post, I'll try and have a few screenshots ready to see what you guys think of my palette edits.

*goes back to work on hack and hopes I become a full member despite my current display of n00bish hacking skills*

Taco · Nov 4, 2005

Great! I'm glad to hear everything is working out for you.

I need to start downloading some of these tools and learn some hacking myself. :o

I look forward to your game though

*goes back to work on hack and hopes I become a full member despite my current display of n00bish hacking skills*
Click to expand...

you mean newbish? Is that even a word?
Well, everyone's gotta start somewhere, so I wouldn't worry about becoming a member. If anything, I would think you are more then qualified enough to be a member as of right now.

Keep up the good work!

Shade · Nov 4, 2005

Thanks Taco. All of this support from you guys is really helping making this hack happen (almost completely done with EHZ act 1). I'd say if you can stick with it long enough to learn the ins and outs, and be (very) commited, its well worth learning. Just make sure you really enjoy doing it, as that's the main reason people do it to begin with, I'd think.

At any rate, the hack is going fine so far, no problems. However, a brilliant idea struck me: Using the Sonic MP3 tool, I could take my hack a step further and add Sonic Adventure, Sonic CD, and perhaps some Sonic Heroes music into it (maybe even a little Hedgehog Heaven, if I can/decide to work that out), and make this truly feel like an update/remix of Sonic 2. Hopefully it won't require editing skills past my current skill level, or ones that are hard to learn.

Here's the problem: I'm not entirely sure how to implement the MP3 tool into my hack, or how to have the specific songs play according to the zone I want them to. Could anyone give me a thourough explanation of how to implement this feature, and how to put the songs I want in the places I want (such as where to put all the songs or the MP3 tool to make it work with my hack)? If someone could give me an explanation as how to do all of this, it would be much appreciated

If you guys need me to, I can provide a list of the songs I'm going to use and their corresponding zone when I get home.

FinalBeyond · Nov 4, 2005

I think if you put the songs in the same folder as the hack and the tool, and rename them to the Sound Test number you want them as, they will work.

Shade · Nov 4, 2005

I did all of that, and it still won't work. it just plays the regular music.

The Mighty Boosh · Nov 4, 2005

I think you have to actually hack the ROM so the original music isn't in the game anymore.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Sonic the Hedgehog 2: Neo West Island

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