Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

Isn't it also because Sprite artwork is also more work overall to make?

 

I don't know if that's true since I'm not a developer. But if it's true then I can also understand why they go the 3D route. I just think it's an irony that it's usually not actually better visually than sprite work unless it's of an exceptionally good quality. Which I presume is in itself very expensive!

 

I think it's largely due to the fact that 2D art forms tend to lend themselves better to the 2D perspective.

Also not a Game Dev, though I've dabbled. I'd reckon 3D animation becomes more cost-effective than 2D animation once you cross a certain border of fidelity, both in frame-for-frame detail, and overall framerate.

I think these two factors combined are why improvements to shaders and rigging technology have lead to a recent wave of 3D-animated games/movies mimicking a 2D style.

Doing high fidelity animation in 3D is cheaper, but leveraging the style of 2D animation creates something that's more appealing when viewed from a 2D perspective, or on a 2D screen.

 

Let's not forget the simple fact that 3D is standard these days. 2D art, especially pixel art, is seen as anywhere from old-fashioned to niche. 3D has better mass-market appeal.

 

I recognise this is definitely true. I just also think it's sad. Because a lot of 2D sidescrollers with 3D art are often very budget in appearance just like Sonic Superstars. I'd have far less of a problem if the games looked like Super Mario Wonder as a baseline.

 

2D art is basically like how stick-shift cars are now in the States: originally seen as/priced as "cheaper" but now a niche selling point that is more expensive to make. Think of all the indie games, like Owlboy and Shovel Knight, who had "accurately retro/gorgeous 2D spritework" as a selling point.

 

Idk to me Super Mario Wonder still looks like a more refined version of what Sonic 4 episode 1 did and I really don’t like that style. I do actually prefer what Superstars is doing to what Wonder is doing. Not that I think Wonder looks bad, I don’t, I just still think this looks nicer. That being said drawn graphics would’ve been my 1st choice. Just kinda sick of classic Sonic being only sprites designed to look like 1996 (that and that Generations model but that’s more Classic tagging along with whatever Moderns up to, Classics not the star there though).

Battle mode maybe a bit ugly at times, but I’m willing to give it a pass because I think those levels are meant to be tight knit battle arenas, so there’ll be lots of floating platforms and such and tight paths that need to work for up to 8 players. Also they just have to run smoothly with 8 people so I imagine some of it might be like, lag reduction especially for the switch (it’s my favorite game again, blame the switch for a game being held back!). And as far as GHZ, I think we already knew that was at least Amy’s opening cutscene so makes sense to reuse the assets for something else.

I’m still kinda wrapping my head around what 8 player Sonic even is, and also thinking is this Sonic Teams first experience with online vs gameplay, because I’m struggling to think of stuff outside of Generations 30 sec challenges, so that in and of itself is kinda interesting. But hey, least it’s just a side part of the game and not the whole thing ala Crash Team Rumble.

Also guess now we know what the medals buy lol.

But ya kinda surprised we aren’t making a bigger thing of the multiplayer since this is kind of a first for Sonic.

 

Huh? Multiplayer has been a thing since Sonic 2. Adventure, Unleashed, Generations (Console) and Forces are the only big titles that skipped out on it. For the most part, they're half baked and rarely brought up. That trend seems to be continuing here. Even the co-op campaign mode just looks like a souped up version of Sonic 3. It fails to even live up to Advance 3's co-op mode, since at least there both players can split up and had their own screen. Since campaign is local only, that ability is straight up gone. They haven't shown any footage where the screen splits.
They sure keep advertising the co-op mode, but they're doing absolutely nothing to actually show it off. The Battle Mode trailer left me with more questions than answers.

 

I'm expecting multiplayer to be like it is in the NSMB games: it's fine with two players, but anything more is total chaos that's more annoying than fun unless you're actively trying to fuck each other over. And given it's Sonic, I expect the implementation to be pretty half-baked. I think the main game will be good but the multiplayer isn't going to be very fun.

 

I know I meant online multiplayer though. It’s never gone beyond 4 players at once this is the first time 8 has been an option. Spin offs or portable games have had online multiplayer or more than 4 players at once, but not any core titles.

EDIT: Right, Mania Plus added 4 player, still local though

 

I mean if you're playing with SEVEN other people I don't suppose there's any reason to play other than to fuck each other over. In fact, I'll be disappointed if they don't revel in the chaos and go full-on in the party/sleepover game mindset.

 

Just to clear it up

Campaign goes up to 4 players and is local only.
Battle Mode goes up to 8 players and has local and online options.

Joe's Chaos comment is specifically referring to the campaign mode, not the Battle Mode where causing chaos is the objective.

 

Ya fwiw I’m mostly curious about the online battle modes. I know what to expect with the local affairs most likely anyway (co-op, race, battle options just locally with 4 players instead of 8)

 

Ooh, fair enough. Then I agree with him. I hope it's balanced and comprehensible, otherwise it'll be just better to finish the campaign alone.

 

Is this not a spin off? Regardless of the player count, this style of multiplayer has been done before and arguably better in other Sonic titles. The multiplayer component for Superstars is underwhelming based on the crumb of info we have so far. I'd be fine with it if they weren't gassing it up so much.

 

Idk I consider this mainline, but it’s def a bit of a gray area. They’re def a bit vague though in what exactly you do in multiplayer. Maybe it’ll be playable on the convention floor and we’ll see more this week?

 

On the topic of mainline/spinoffs--if you were a fully 2D Sonic game released after Sonic & Knuckles, you were either a game made strictly for handhelds, or a digital-only game. Even Mania was pushed as more of a smaller project/tie-in for Forces and got a physical release after the fact. Superstars is the first 2D game in years to be treated as a big deal all of its own, and not just some side-piece for the 3D games; never mind being pushed as an expansion/evolution of the MD gameplay. All of the above easily overrides it being a spinoff IMO.

Regarding co-op, I feel like being able to screw each other over in cooperative play only really works if everybody's on the same page to clown around, and the game itself encourages it. Something like Rayman Origins/Legends where death is a slap on the wrist and the game's wackier tone/presentation lends itself towards the player sabotage. I feel like there's a opening for a platforming co-op game with a sadistic bent that really mines that idea for what its worth, where players do have to sacrifice/screw each other for further level progression (or to get special perks like powerups / collectibles / secrets).

Going back to Superstars, Sega hasn't really shown much of Superstars' co-op beyond a few quick cuts in the trailers, but it's pretty apparent that the people who have cut the footage for the trailers have made sure not to show any clips that feature multiple characters moving fast, moving independently of each other, AND doing both in a "regular" platforming context. Gameplay that has been highlighted so far are clips that feature a slower, sometimes fixed (via autoscrolling) gameplay pace and "group" mechanics like the the vertical platforming with balloons, the transformations in the Tron-like voxel stage or the exploding ramp that launches all of the players inside. Everybody in those clips are either in a locked camera/player sequence or are in areas that discourage or outright prohibit quick movement.

All of the above of which I say is actually good for a cooperative platforming campaign, in regards to keeping everybody together in the same lane and in the same direction. At the same time though, seeing the single-player playthroughts for the stages (such as those from SGF) and their more fast-paced/"traditional" level structures and mechanics, I struggle seeing how those are supposed to work in a co-op context. Between the Sonic CD-esque tunnels of chutes/springs, the labyrinth of grind vines/springs across multiple planes, and the y-looping/falling forever segments, any notion of cooperative play to be had in Speed Jungle Zone is a tough sell to me.

 

I don't think I'm seeing the same game, for what it's worth. Super Mario Wonder, from what I have seen, looks uninspired and plastic. It literally looks like cheap 3D models thrown into a 2D game per my eyes. I can barely tell it apart from the New Super Mario Bros. games which looked very bland themselves. But that's my hot take.

I would partially agree about Sonic Superstars's graphics having a lot of bloom, etc. I am not a fan of all that myself. I wasn't a fan of the backgrounds blurred for depth and stuff like that. I noticed that right away and it gave me pause. However, I also think some of the graphics we've been shown look really great. Speed Jungle looks slick as hell (in a good way). Although, these are just my opinions. My least favourite so far is the carnival/pinball level (whatever it's called). That one doesn't do anything for me as of this writing and it looks pretty mediocre but I am hoping there will be a lot more positives than negatives in the end. But, I will stick up for Superstars's aesthetic. To a point at least.

 

Tbh I really love the first 2 zones we saw, and Pinball Carnival too! I can understand how the style looks "cheap", but it seems very cohesive and stylized which I think is nice.

What does have me scratching my head is that they seem to cheap out in some areas and not cheap out in others. For example, the battle mode stages do not look like the quality I would expect from a SEGA game with the budget and resources they have available. It's Arzest obviously, but you get what I mean. That cyber stage also doesn't really look like it matches the quality of Bridge Island, especially when they showed footage of the Eggman boss fight. It looks MUCH less detailed, possibly by stylistic choice, but the flat, squarish geometry combined with a super sparse background consisting of just rectangular buildings kinda looks strange to me. I haven't even seen any eye-catching signs like you'd see in Mania, just those simple neon Eggman heads. I do start to see the "cheap" / "plasticy" issue, not because of the visual style, but because it doesn't seem to match the first two zones we saw. I hope most zones are on par with Bridge Island and Speed Jungle in that sense, I don't mind Battle Mode really since it's just to goof around with friends, although seeing Green Hill in that form and what I presume is that Press level with the custom mechs and their wonky animations running through them was a bit jarring.


Wonder definitely seems more cohesive and more polished on many fronts, but I don't think the 3D style in particular is the difference maker with Superstars. Also maybe hopium... but if this game performs well then hopefully the next installment will actually have a bigger budget and bigger scope, maybe going beyond 12 zones. But if it doesn't get the sales they're hoping for, then I do kinda worry they'll get the OPPOSITE idea... who knows.

 

Now that I'm a little more over stupid spoiler guy, I don't know what it is but I'm really excited for the robot customization.
Actually, it looks like there's a Clown headpiece that is a reference to the juggling enemy in Sonic Advance 3 Toy Kingdom...