Not sure how you all feel about this guy, but... Look at what a certain somebody had to say about Sonic this week. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY2HF4Lf9kI
Couldn't agree more. I really hope that it gets into Sega's head at this point, particularly after this drastic abortion. How many more games do we need that fall under the "it's flawwed but it was a good idea at heart" category? We don't want change, we don't want something drastic and new, we want a well refined, good Sonic game, that plays LIKE A SONIC GAME. Jesus Sega you have like 20 other IPs you never use anymore, why not experiment with them? Or hell, make a new IP and experiment with that. Stop throwing Sonic at every idea possible when it has nothing to do with Sonic. You want to make a Jak and Daxter platformer? Fine. Make some new characters and go crazy. Fuck it make a Jak and Daxter platformer out of Jet Set Radio for all I care, use a series that hasn't seen the light of day in eons and reinvent that, as those are the series that are more likely to need reinvention to begin with. When Nintendo tries something new, they generally slap it onto a new IP. Pikmin wasn't a Mario game where he controlled a bunch of different colored Toads. Mario is not given a sword to fight Bowser. But nope, Sega only has 1 creative IP these days, and since you can't slap these ideas on Miku, Total War, and Aliens, all that's left is Sonic to be their permanent test subject. Hell, Sega is reinventing Sonic before a game even comes out and has a chance to be labeled good or bad. How is that formula supposed to work? How can you have so little confidence in your product that you aren't even giving it a chance? So Sega, it's simple. Take ideas from Generations, Colors, the good parts of Unleashed, and maybe Lost World, and make a good game. No Jak and Daxter platforming, no swords, no werehog, no Mario Galaxy designs, no shooting, no treasure hunting, no team work, no guns, no telekinetic powers, none of it. This constant need to change is driving me nuts. I'm tired of this series being filled with mediocrity and drama. Either fix the series, just give up and never make a Sonic game again, or sell it to someone who knows what they're doing.
My hypothesis is that Sega as a business pays less attention to individual Sonic games and focuses most of their attention on selling the characters. The fact that Sonic has survived so many blunders over the years is testament to his power as an intellectual property and to the loyalty of his core audience (children and boys). They haven't improved their games or adhered to a coherent formula because they don't depend on those things to survive, so they don't invest in them and instead focus more of their budget on marketing the IP and telling/showing potential customers how awesome their characters are. One would think that with all of this in mind, why wouldn't they stick with the same gameplay elements every time? It certainly strikes me as a less expensive and less risky alternative to reinventing the wheel constantly. My best theory is that it's because Sonic's core character trait is coolness. Treating this as his sole defining trait is a problem, because the public's idea of "cool" is constantly fluctuating; What was cool to '90s kids feels dated to kids born in the 2000s and 2010s. So Sega as a company looks at this and feels that the best way for their mascot to remain as cool as possible is for his gameplay to shift, turn and spindash with the times. I mean, take a look at how Sonic Generations portrayed Classic Sonic. Back in the '90s, Sonic was cool. But in Generations? He's "cute." Sega doesn't want their hedgehog to be cute moving forward, hence why they won't return to the classic formula without some sort of new gimmick to spice things up. Other popular characters like Link don't have this problem because their identities don't revolve around a volatile trait like coolness, but by something more concrete (which for Link is his courage, and to a lesser extent his ability to project the player's personality). tl;dr - Sega looks at Sonic from a business and marketing perspective, paying less attention the finer aspects of game design and more to making the character look and feel as appealing as possible to their target audience. Beyond that, they don't pay attention to what their devs do with the gameplay as long it doesn't conflict with their interests.
Yes, of course Sonic is a brand. But the longer they don't give a rats ass about what the devs are doing, the less power the brand is going to have. Every game since Heroes has basically been steadily getting less and less sales. If the games don't get better, that trend will continue, and then Sonic will mean nothing. Plus, whether they like it or not, Sonic is still the face of their company. I'm sure to many if Sonic sucks, then Sega does as well, and that doesn't help them at all.
That's the disconcerting part, indeed. Unlike Nintendo, Sega doesn't have a massive pile of cash to cushion a slow financial decline, so if they don't push out a decent game (Sonic or otherwise), they could see themselves in a really bad spot in the future. Hopefully they get the message before that happens.
You literally just described Hot Topic's business model. I think a testament to how good SEGA is at trying to ride the cool train is the success of the Shadow character - sure he's seen as cheesy and 3edgy5me by the really old fans, but for people like me who were 15 or so when the whole metal/goth revival of the early 2000's happened, he's a loved character. And it shows - that game of his was absolutely awful, and we all still bought it. They could solve the problem by de-coupling the character design from the gameplay. Solid platforming is good in any age.
You have to remember that the west and the east have two very different perceptions of classic Sonic. The original Japanese interpretation is definitely more Mickey Mouse "cute" where the west made him out to be a way past cool dude with a 'tude in marketing and various supporting media. Generations was developed by Sonic Team in Japan using the former. I think you're mostly right though. Sega wants to keep Sonic hip for younger audiences because that's always been his strong suit. It was admitted somewhere that Colors and Lost World had Mario influences added to be more familiar to people who own Mario titles on the Wii and Wii U. Boom was a push by SoA to introduce Sonic to more young audiences in the west. The games were only one part of the equation since Boom also pushing a show, toys, and a comic. So far all the spinoff game has done is more damage to Sonic's rep and failed to initially sell. The holidays can still make an impact but Sega has no confidence in it. The show is too young to gauge much of anything but the timeslot is disheartening. Jury is out on the toys and the comic. It's likely the gamble isn't paying off as much as they hoped. As for the development the game, there had to be some supreme fuckups, mismanagement, conflicting ideas, or corporate interference in order for it to end up like it did. Hopefully we'll get that scoop sooner or later.
I agree with Strife that the definition of coolness is fairly volatile. Although Sonic Team could have taken a page from Devil May Cry if they wanted to keep Sonic cocky and relevant. They clearly didn't go the whole mile to make him edgy, when he transitioned to 3D. Going on what Tiller said, (I seriously had no idea the Japanese perception of Sonic was that different.) at this point, I'd say a cute Sonic wouldn't be a bad thing, if not a move for the better. Take one look at Pokemon, it comprises mostly of cute animals, and sells faster than it can be stocked; what's cute will always be cute. I think that's what makes characters like Mickey Mouse, Mario, and Hello Kitty pretty much timeless, even as their appearance evolves with the times. Sonic could easily be in the same boat too. I actually liked Classic Sonic in Generations, that was adorable. Just seeing him on a skateboard was enough to induce internal squees. The contrast from his marketed image in the 90's didn't bother me, I liked this image of Sonic better.
The thing with coolness is that the public's idea of coolness isn't restricted to that single mindset. Along with things that are considered cool in a certain period but are now viewed as dated, there are also things that weren't considered cool at first but are considered cool now (in TVTropes terms, being vindicated by history). Then you have things that fluctuate between not being cool and being cool (I.e. Pokemon's popularity polynomial). And then you have things that were considered cool then and are considered cool now. They effectively become "old-school", "retro", and "timeless". Considering that the Genesis games are still well-regarded today by critics and fans and they still sell, and that Sonic even prior to his Adventure rebranding has outlasted the numerous Mascot with Attitude knockoffs that he pioneered, Classic Sonic has arguably hit that timeless factor. (And as a means to throw in a pinch of irony, the first two Adventure game that kicked off the rebranding of the series are largely considered to have aged terribly in direct contrast to the Genesis games, the first Adventure game moreso than the second.) EDIT: Also worth noting that in regards to the mindset that Sonic has to constantly change what he's doing in order to stay "cool"-that's not necessary in order to stay cool. All Sega had to do was keep or revisit what made Sonic work. That's how a series maintains it's identity, which is what makes the series unique from the rest, and in turn what can make a series successful in the first place, regardless whether it gives the series a niche appeal or an everyman appeal. Classic Sonic was able to do that. Constantly changing causes a series to lose it's identity, and in turn what made it successful in the first place. (Constantly) changing just to stay "cool" or "relevant" (especially if it's based off of whatever is cool at the time) not only causes you to lose your identity, it also makes you come off as dated. Remember when they changed the theme for Toejam and Earl from funk and pop to rap and hip-hop for the third game released years later as a means to appeal to the demographic of that generation? Didn't turn out so well for the series, did it?
I could go either way. Cute Sonic would be great, but I also think that there's an element of timelessness to Uewaka's artstyle for Sonic Adventure 1 promotional materials. It really drew from the very abstractly-proportioned cartoons from the 20's, but with a unique metro/2k flair. Bringing that back wouldn't be a bad idea, as I think the style holds up pretty well. The stylization of the art exudes a coolness that doesn't shift with the times. Regardless of what direction they go, one thing is certain: Sonic needs to stop talking, and any cutscenes or events need to be primarily done with actions, not words. Take for instance the intro cutscenes for the rival and boss cutscenes in Generations. Sonic hasn't been that cool in years, because it focused on the cool things he was doing instead of "cool" things he's saying, or attempts at being "meta" by being completely self-aware. Maybe he shouldn't go completely silent, but if Eggman was the only one to have any major lines, I don't think anyone would complain, because Pollock's performances over the past 10 years has without a doubt been the high point of the series' narrative since he joined the cast. Sonic doesn't need to be an art game by any means, but I'd love an abstract, surreal experience with little to no dialogue, and let the coolness exude from events, actions and the settings. It would be a good way of the series differing itself from the primary roadmap most platformers go by these days. A base of Generations gameplay with a pinch of Lost World mechanics, mixed with this kind of presentation, and I would cry tears of joy. It would be nice for Sega to realize what really went wrong with Sonic Boom was a symptom of larger problems within the franchise. But since it's an American company that developed it, and typical SoJ "untouchableness" mindsets, I doubt there will be many lessons learned from this trainwreck.
Heyhey, someone who doesn't hate BSC! awesome, I have to deal with BSC hate all the time at SSMB. Anyways, Have we talked about this yet? Looks like someone managed to glitch their way into a test area. Also this: Somebody didn't proof read the subtitles.
If you take some of the older Sonic-y material from between about 1992 and 1998 you get a good indication of what Japan's view on Sonic was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMhd38nW_0Y Remember Tom and Jerry, or specifically the shorts from the 1950s where they'd also have Nibbles? It's a bit like that, where Robotnik is Tom, Sonic is Jerry and Tails is Nibbles. Or maybe a better analagy is the Road Runner shorts. idk. Point is it's not difficult. There are three central characters, and they don't need to speak to get their personalities across. And Knuckles fits in nicely in one-off scenarios and whatever (much like Spike the dog does). But the US continuity has been messed up from the minute they started making Sonic the voice of the people, or dumping stupid characters like Sally "I don't match the aesthetic in any way but who cares" Acorn onto the scene. In Europe you get a bit of both, and it's the western markets which proved more receptive to these games, so the logical conclusion is "localised tat = good". And of course this is replicated a bit in Sonic Adventure where we've got a fusing between regional marketing and extra RPG stuff added for the Japanese audience. And then it just gets messy. I said it from the beginning but Classic Sonic in Sonic Generations isn't that good. It's better than the modern equivalent by leaps and bounds, but it it's treated more as "young Sonic" rather than "alternative Sonic". Very different from the Sonic in that advert above, anyway.
Well, there's a reason not to go to SSMB. BSC (and related Somecallmejohnny, SGB, and Clement) are some of my favorite YouTubers. I love Game Grumps too, but I watch them more for pure comedy than skill at the games. But on those pictures, I've never heard of people glitching into test areas. Usually, doing something like that requires editing level values or something to load the test level, because they're usually not connected to the main game. But subtitle errors don't bother me, I've seen plenty of those in great games, whether there's general typos, not matching the spoken dialogue, or just the wrong form of "your/you're".
Still kind of hilarious that Johnny doesn't have an account here, and yet is called on for the hacking contests. He does have a review of the Sonic Booms, if people are interested.
Funny thing is that they are all fans of them separately but together they hate, but its cool I won't stop going there because of that both Retro and SSMB are my forum bros. Well, I doubt that this game was edited due to the Wii-U not being homebrewed so it had to be possible somehow. I just find it funny that a whole subtitle block was just dedicated to '/'. yeah he does, hes just 1 of the many MANY victums of Pending Limbo. an issue that really needs to be resolved here @ Retro. http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showuser=9507 Glad he doesn't hate us for him being stuck there for 4 years.
4 years? Really? Jeez! It took me only ONE DAY to get approved here. Either he's doing something wrong or Sonic Retro really should address this issue. (btw, this is my first post after being approved as a member).
It stems from a situation that happened a few years ago. I'll leave it up to an admin if they want to discuss it more. Nothing bad, mind you, in case people feel like starting shit.
Regardless of how it happened, the people that were caught in the fallout were never really told how to get re-approved for trial membership and are just stuck like that (and a deep resentment that we somehow denied them for no reason). Johnny didn't even get a trial member shot hes still stuck in that process that you have to go through before you even get to trial member. Peoples membership cases should really be re-evaluated for what the reason was they were denied or stuck in Pending Limbo Zone and if it was some technical or outside force fuck up they should at least be granted another chance to be trial members at the least. Maybe open up an email that Pending Limbo members can request to have their membership case's re-evaluated I don't know just spitballing.
