Sonic Adventure 2 – Everything that is bad in a Sonic game

I really liked the concept of playing as Robotnik, it's just a shame they squandered him by making him the same as Tails (removed from his speed/flying levels and stuck in a slow mech shooting things). But hey, at least we got double the number of treasure hunting stages too! :v:

 

Not to rub more salt in the wound, but I agree as well.

It played like Sonic 3D with fish lens and some quirky gimmicks.

That's not funny.

Because dildo or Madonna or demonic god-like forces would have any influence on the gameplay, which is why you love the classics so much and are a regular of this site, right?

And the westernization... aren't we overexagerating their influence? It was Madona, the fangs and what else? Even if we assume they were the ones that got rid of the surrel monsters, it wasn't the west who put Eggman in their place, either. What's left?

 

I find it kind of funny when I think about it.

Sonic-“Yeah! Cowabunga! Man buckles rock. All Americans always wear buckles. Glad I survived that Free Willy cameo! After I destroy the Death Star and rip off that Indiana Jones flick I'm going to go skateboard down to the pub and get me a radical Chili Dog. *air guitar* *break dance* *Macarena*”

Westerners-“Oh those silly Japanese hedghogs.”

 

The original American influence, is not an exaggeration. Without those changes sonic could've flopped big time. Things such as design and characters are very important.
Like I've mentioned before, Sonic was made with America in mind, from design to attitude... to the type of game-play that Americans wanna play.

As well, later American influence such as chilli-dogs and the name Dr. Robotnik became staples of the franchise. Not to mention all the American settings in the game series like Empire city, 80s/90s boulevard being based off NY and City escape being based off San Francisco.

 

This is why Sonic has buckles on his shoes...



Skip forward to 3.59 and you will see something that really rather neat.

Spoiler

Sonic's shoes IRL.

 

I love how just because the western people said to remove all the rock band and Madonna stuff, everybody gets the idea that the localization team were the inventors of Dr. Eggman, the Chaos Emeralds, South Island, the entire Sonic mythos, as well as his gameplay. In fact, I'm almost absolutely sure they had all that in the beginning; just that the localization team took it into their hands to remove what was ultimately not-so-great ideas. A pretty big improvement thanks to the west? Yes, indeed. Was it probably their only major contribution? Most likely.

 

That is only a supposition.

If he had been made only for the U.S., then it would have been a dumb thing to do, just as much as penis guy. There's more to America than the U.S. and there's more to world than America.

Robotnik is something that is hardly mentioned these days. Settings that resemble the U.S. are in two games only, Sonic 2 and Adventure 2, which is only expected because the team that did them was in the U.S. at the time. Empire City is not an example, because the whole game featured other real world landscapes. It's not as if other games haven't featured other real world references, such as Egypt in Sonic 3 and Adventure 2, or Central America's for the Echidnas' civilisation, or South / West Island which are islands in the Pacific. But nothing of this influences the series' direction except the chilli-dogs I suppose. That is why I said it was an exaggeration, not that it didn't exist.

 

Regardless, it was something they weren't willing to risk.

No, it wasn't. You don't seem to understand back then that the U.S. was the main target market for selling video-games at the time and SEGA heavily relied on the U.S. sales toward the company. They would sell the game elsewhere also but heavily relied on the U.S. sales. This is why the US comics are still going on and why we had 3 cartoon series. (even if you like them or not) When it came to stuff such as marketing, merchandise, and media. The U.S. always came to mind. Not only that, SEGA of America tried their hardest to advertise Sonic to the full extent through commercials, through packing the genesis with the game and the various mall tours demo'ing the game to the audiences.

Staples such as Sonic's impatient attitude to his design has always been and always will be of the US's influence. Robotnik may not be said as often as it used to but is forever a part of the series canon. Later influence now is up to the current Sonic Team, but the original Sonic Team specifically targeted Sonic mostly for U.S. audiences. You can call it an exaggeration, but if it wasn't for the U.S. makeover and the terrific effort of SEGA of America there is a chance the series wouldn't have continued after the first game.

 

Ripped staight from the Wiki:

Schroeder's job is to make sure that the Product is successful in the U.S. and where in charge of the Westernization of the franchise. The only thing that SoA done is to change the story, name, and artwork. Also note that Robotnik is ENTIRELY SoA Idea, since they want to make him more of a serious threat. You have to realize that SoA wanted the Sega Genesis to be an Exetreme Console with an Exetreme Mascot: and the original Sonic Team Trio FAILED to do just that. They did made him with america in mind, but not with SoA in mind.

 

About the fangs, he still has them. The classic artwork kept his mouth shut, but in the DC era, the fangs popped out pretty often in the 3D model. Adventure and Shuffle at least ... Can't remember if they showed up in Adventure 2. I wonder if they were ever gone or if they were reintroduced with the redesign.

There are just too many contradictions with that lady's story. I knew about the band being bullocks, but I wasn't aware that Madona and the rest had another story. Then the fangs... Uh. Still the significance is cosmetic at best.

Still suppositions.

Wasn't Underground a joined effort? The UK comic being scrapped was not related to popularity. Commercials, even Japan had them. Packing the Genesis with the game in the US was not to promote Sonic, it was to promote the Genesis. The Mega Drive already dominated the share in Europe and it was so successfull in Brazil, they're still selling it. What do the spinoffs matter anyway? They weren't the main promotors of the games.

Sonic's impatience and attitude was already in Sonic 1. The title screen animation or his iddle animation are hints of this. Furthermore, the Japanese commercials and STC have him as impatient and in the european case, even worse attitude there. It has nothing to do with what DIC cooked up.

 

1. I never said DiC created Sonic's attitude, I only mentioned the cartoon series as promotional media. I said the U.S. influenced Sonic's attitude in his creation because it was originally inspired from Bill Clinton.
2. Sonic wasn't only advertised in the U.S, he was "mainly" promoted there compared to other regions.
3. Making cartoons for a franchise "does" plenty to help promote the games and the franchise as a whole. Its like saying making a movie to Harry Potter doesn't encourage some (not all) people to read the books. So that is a flat out lie. Getting Sonic exposed in any matter advertises the franchise as a whole.
4. Packaging Sonic with the genesis was dual decision, they needed to promote Sonic and get the genesis rolling along. Its was a win/win situation for them.
5. Never said the UK comic was scrapped due to popularity, nor did I mention it at all. I mentioned the Archie series because it was mainly a U.S. only thing at first and wasn't widely available as it is now. The comic sold pretty well in the U.S with the original mini series thus it leading for it to still continue onto this day. The cartoons as well may have lend a hand in helping sales. Which is why I used it as a reference for U.S. influence.
6. Okay, underground was a joined effort, SatAM and Aosth however weren't. Then again, it doesn't really matter since the U.S. still had a part in the series.
7. In the end, Sonic was originally made for and inspired by the U.S.. What more do you want? Like David the Lurker said, its a "It is an undisputed fact that Sonic the Hedgehog was aimed at a western audience. ". American comics, American celebrities and political figures, down to the style and games the people in the U.S. wanted to play. The U.S is "forever" the "original" main influence towards the creation of the games. Even if the games were made by the Japanese.

Okay, lets get back to subject on Sonic Adventure 2. Mad derailing the topic.

In my own personal opinion, Sonic Adventure 2 will always (once again, to me) be the superior experience then Sonic Adventure. Sonic's game-play has been radically improved and more stable, the levels are much larger, the game is much more difficult, good music (its opinion but then again SA2's soundtrack is widely popular), more features, more abilities, unlockables, improved graphics, improved Chao system, introduction to Shadow and Rouge (characters who are FAR more popular then Big or Gamma), and multiplayer. Finally, I really liked the story (opinion), it was darker, gave a more open look at the Sonic world besides Sonic and friends, and introduced Eggman's family.

Adventure 2 may have flaws such as with the some linear level design and tougher emerald hunting stages, but I'm sorry it wasn't a complete piece of shit as this topic makes it out to be. Besides, I rather play as the walkers then Big's fishing and Gamma's much more short and linear stages. SA2 had some design decisions some people may not agree with but saying it was a completely terrible game is a flat out lie, there is a reason Sonic 2006 is much more widely hated compared to Adventure 2. Sonic Adventure 2 did more right then it did wrong.

Also, can someone confirm this? Didn't SA2 have a much more lower budget and faster timetable to get on the shelves? I know the game got delayed once but I heard it was still shorter development time.

 

I'm not convinced by any of your points and I stand by what I said (exaggeration). Let's agree to disagree.

 

Way late here, but I love you.

 

My like of Sonic Adventure 2 is inversely proportional to the time elsapsed since it was first announced.

I didn't like the fact it effectively halved the amount of gameplay options back in 2001, nevermind now when I've been acquianted with many more games from that era. It was cheaply made and rushed to market, and it shows. Plus... it does't really have much relation to Sonic Adventure 1. There's no direct references to the previous game just the odd comment about "STATION SQUARE" and I guess the "Tornado 3" - but we know Tails was tagged in at the end so that barely counts.

Graphically it's an improvement in some areas, but you would expect that - Sonic Adventure started its life off on the Saturn and was built simultaneously with the Dreamcast. But the Shadow, Rouge and Tails stages are all lacking in some way and it's abundantly clear they were thrown in later in development. It's a nice game but it's no masterpiece. It caused more problems than it solved.

I'd put the blame on Heroes for the continuation of crap though. Without Sonic Adventure 2 there would be no Heroes, but you know there's trouble when you start raising the dead.



As for "localisation"... Sega of America have never been able to market a product properly and this continues to this day. I agree with Mr. Lurker's comments - American meddling didn't really change anything, but it does divide fanbases up. At a raw level the localised story of Sonic 1 isn't all that different to the Japanese one - there's just a backstory regarding the main characters. It's just that array of Archie characters that bare no resemblence to anything found in the games, and the noticably worse art styles that mess fan communties around a bit. I mean what the bloody christ was Sonic Underground trying to do.

Nothing Sega of America did compares to the vast redesigns the series got when Sonic Adventure came to town.

 

Please redirect all localization post to this thread.
Once again, SA2 brought us an improved A-Life system. That's good enough for me.