Design Choices in the Post-Generations Era

I know this is an old, tired argument, but I would like to see a sonic game play like a game instead of an interactive movie for once. And the 'make the game hard by making it tedious and frustrating' paradigm needs to go. So... yeah I agree with SS's evaluation for the most part.

The 3d portions of the game suffer from this the most though. They've tried to 'fix' the complaints with sonic adventure by making the scope of the game incredibly narrow. Many of the camera problems stem from the player doing things the designers did not expect. Instead of trying to make the system more robust they tried to lock you out of doing anything other than what they wanted. This began as early as SA2 when the L/R triggers went from moving the camera all the time, to only moving the camera when you were stopped and as soon as you moved you got directed 'forward'. Then in heroes they started making the levels not cross over eachother as much, and considerably more linear making shortcuts harder to take. They also cut down on sonic's lateral mobility. Sure you can turn in any direction - if you've come to a complete stop. In sonic adventure, you can be moving at top speed and turn very sharply. Not so in sonic unleashed. Not like it would matter, you'd just hit a wall anyways. What's the purpose of being a 3d section without using the 3d part?

You went from having an open adventure game, to a scripted, forced and shoehorned memorization fest. In sonic adventure, I could jump in a loop if I wanted to. Sure it might throw me off the level, but I wasn't blocked from doing it. Hell, in sonic adventure you can build a loop that doesn't require the auto-pathing. it's difficult but they designed the physics and game mechanics well enough to apply in all situations instead of special-casing everything. I've built levels that prove you can have a more open experience in a sonic game. Sure it takes a lot longer and I know why they hate doing it. Nothing sucks more than finding out your camera layout is incomplete because a playtester went into valid level space and the cam didn't cooperate because you didn't think of that area. But you better suck it up because cutting down on the valid playspace is going to make the player think twice about playing your game.

 

Well I still think Sonic looks poor. Sonic Adventure had an acceptable model, but it slowly progressed into the 'man in a suit' we have today. His quills are just squishy things now, even. Knuckles is like this too. Tails can get away with it more by not being 'sharp', but even then he should be more organic instead of a wax model. In the Genesis games and earlier 3D games, none of them were waxy, they looked like how you would expect (Sonic and Knuckles were saws, Tails was furry; just look at any of them in a ball).

Their faces and personality still seem off to me. I guess others can enjoy this, but it is not how the characters were ever designed to be. Like I said earlier, if they want to make something else then they should just make something else. Leave established characters alone.

And I think we have different concepts of 'mature'. Shadow the Hedgehog is about as immature as a video game can be; worse than Sonic Colours.

Well I just quickly found the image. It was reference only. I assume people know what Sonic and Tails look like in Sonic Colours and Generations.

And if you want to use that example instead, OK! My overall point is that time is not the issue.

 

I don't really care whether the games are 2D or 3D, as long as the developers are able to present polished, consistent gameplay. I'd want to say that designing the games in 2D would allow the developers to put more effort into refining the game rather than developing levels, but then again, we did get Sonic 4...

The team that made the classic games has moved on and isn't coming back, and 100% classic gameplay isn't coming back either. What I'd like to see instead is Sega/SonicTeam taking classic concepts and finding a way to incorporate them into the modern gameplay. Rolling should return as a major gameplay element; it was a crucial part of the original games, and an integral part of Sonic's character design. Moves like the homing attack and grinding should be optional, not core elements of level design. I think one place where the developers have been getting it right has been making Sonic not just fast, but manoeuvrable as well. The stomp (and being able to cancel out of jumps using it), quick-step, and drift are all good ideas.

I think the level designers have forgotten something crucial; the original levels weren't designed around setpieces or scripted events, but rather the physics of the game. Several other people have already mentioned the older games having an element of freedom to them; I like to think that the classic levels, rather than relying on scripted sequences, encouraged players to create their own "events". For example, after that tube at the end of Green Hill's first act, didn't you want to try and get more air by bouncing off the nearby enemies? I think a lot of the impact of that "sequence" would have been dulled had it played out automatically with no input from the player.

 

Wish they'd make some. In short, there are more ways to construct 3D stages than 'walkway suspended in mid-air'. A lot more. These should be explored; to more ends than just speedways over and over. First two Sonic games didn't consist of Star Light Zone or Chemical Plant Zone clones, there was a mixture of gameplay styles and rhythms with Sonic alone.

Otherwise, I agree with a lot of what Dude has said.

 

Well I could get you some shots of sonic adventure levels and how they cross-over eachother, but other games would require someone else. But there are plenty of people here who have dolphin who can do level rips for you and I think polygonjim has perfect colors rips.

(I can't seem to get SADXLVL working on my laptop right now, hold on...)

 

It would be worth looking at, that's for sure.

I remember that it was noted how Sonic Advance 2's levels are mostly in a downward-sloping configuration, I wonder if there are similar emergent trends in the 3D games. I'd imagine Sonic Heroes' levels to mostly look like interwoven pieces of string from a plan view.

 

If I were them, I just combine the two.