Clearing a Misconception About Sonic Forces Dev Team

My honest thought now is that, if they made an engine of quality equivalent to the one for the classic games, and measured a lot better when and how add automation, they could port every old game to said engine with these control measures but otherwise keepeng them faithful to the original version, and every single one of them would become a much better game and feel less different or disconnected from each other in terms of gameplay. People may complain abouth mechs, guns and werehogs, about plots, wisps and whatever, but I don't think the big public would regret that much experimentation and reinvention if it ran under smooth physics and freedom of action most of the time.

 

I did the right thing avoiding this topic for as long as I did...

I'm of two minds about the Sonic Team discourse; on one hand, I get it. They're selling mediocre products that people aren't satisfied with; regardless of how you feel about the older or newer games, I think most fans can generally agree the series has had an issue with maintaining quality control since it went 3D. So there's really no logical reason to assume they're just gonna suddenly magically change course now. Even when they released games that were generally liked, it didn't preclude them releasing dogshit later on. And with games coming out less frequently, it only compounds the issue; the four year gap between Lost World, with Rise of Lyric and then Forces really just...isn't going to instill any confidence. Imagine waiting four years anticipating a new game, and then you got Forces. Any reasonable person would be pissed off. At least when we got Shadow-06-Secret Rings, we had Unleashed about a year or so later and while that game was similarly controversial, people at least acknowledged that it was a step in the right direction, which cultivated in Colors and Generations, two of the most well received games in recent years.

Not helping matters is that the longer wait times between games has caused fans to start reevaluating older games and see them in a much more fonder light...regardless of the actual reception those games had upon their initial release. Can tell you right now, if we weren't getting games like Forces, fans would have no reason to start being nostalgic for Sonic 06 of all games. And I'm almost certain most of the 06 nostalgia comes from people who didn't actually play it from start to finish and just read about how amazing Shadow and Silver's stories were on Reddit or Twitter or something.

So on that front, Sonic Team deserve all of the shit they get, because regardless of the circumstances, the bottom line is they're not delivering. Every other gaming franchise from Sonic's period is putting it's best foot forward, while Sonic is still floundering in mediocrity, it's an aggravating situation to see, especially if you've been around long enough to see the series at its best. It would make anyone a cynical sack of shit. It doesn't justify some people's attitudes, but its understandable where it comes from.


On the other hand, game development is hard, like extremely hard. Even as far back as the original games, Sonic games are notoriously difficult to develop and design and all of the recent information in recent years supports that. Most of the older staff are gone now, so new staff need to be brought in which only compounds that issue. Add the rising costs of video game development and even stricter deadlines, it's a recipe for disaster. The fact that Sonic is even still getting games nowadays is a miracle. That said, this is information the average and casual fan either doesn't know or doesn't care about it. Most fans are gonna judge the surface level qualities of these games and don't really care HOW the game was made or what the team had to go through to make it. The game is either good or bad as far as most fans are concerned. Is it unfair? Absolutely, but that's beside the point, because almost every game franchise has to endure that.

Sonic discourse definitely needs a lot more nuance, and all of the memes and hot takes people constantly post on social media, as well as Sonictubers intentionally stirring the pot are only exacerbating that issue. But until Sonic Team actually deliver on quality control and show that they can make more than a few good games per year, the discourse will never change. The Sonic fanbase is a monster of Sega's own creation and now they have no way of controlling it.

 

We center a lot on Sonic fanbase, which isn't the whole market, and sometimes we remember the general public, who rarely is like we think inside the Sonic fanbase. There may be critics and noisy people out there, and there will be people taking those as gospel (like a friend's son; I gave him an antidote against this recently by making him actually play a Sonic game), but my impression is Sonic has a good enough reputation and a lot of people like it or understand if someone else likes Sonic games.

Take into account the good thing about being a game for kids is the same reason why a lot of mediocre films and TV shows that were successful at their time are also successful when re-airing or getting some sequel or remake: kids take them unbiased and squeeze all the good they can find in them without a technical analysis or any other kind of deep knowledge; they just try it and decide if they're enjoying it or not. If the stuff clicks on the kids despite not being excellent is because developers did right the thing they had to do right, whether they knew it or not.

With this I want to say Sonic surviving despite the franchise's ups and downs isn't that much of a surprise for me, and, while of course I want Sonic games to be stellar and it's a pity if they go the opposite way, we shouldn't be so puzzled when something that doesn't work for us or any other part of the fanbase does get the job done for sega or the general public. Cases like Forces might be a letdown for everyone but still aren't an apocalyptic tier fiasco for the world out there.

 

I first played 06 after beating forces a year prior. I've 100%ed both. I liked 06 more. I have no nostalgia for it.

Ive noticed a huge thing with the Sonic fanbase is that a ton of people assume that literally everything is the direct result of sheer, blind nostalgia. However, people who read my "Debunking the Generations of Sonic Fans Misconception" thread (or whatever it was called) will remember there was a surprising lack of nostalgia in there. Go figure.

Different strokes for different folks. Some people may feel hopeless with current Sonic games, while others are content. Nostalgia has nothing to do with it, it's just personal tastes- myself a case in point. What most Sonic fans seem to miss though is that just cause a good number of people may enjoy an """""objectively""""" bad game (depends on the game), that doesn't mean those people don't want legitimately good games. I liked 06. Does that mean I want Sonic Team to continue falling on their faces so I can have more 06s? Of course not. That's idiotic.

Back to your post, yes, releases like Forces tend to make us remember the past, but again, not cause we're nostalgia blind. The only reason why we, as humans, can appreciate the good times is cause we have bad times too. When bad things happen, we think about our favorite good things. Ye, I know, sounds like nostalgia right? Nostalgia is good though, nostalgia blindness is not- but there isn't amy here imo. Notice how forces hasn't made the entire fanbase collectively claim 06 to be the savior of the franchise. Again, that would be idiotic (I have seen a few cases though).

I guess my point of this very poorly written post with disconnected thoughts and reasoning is just to say that nostalgia blindness isn't a factor here. When things get bad, we're perfectly within our right to remember how things used to be better. Forces's story sucked. People remember how Shadow's and Silver's stories in 06 were better. That's not being all nostalgic, that's giving credit where credit is due. I can attest to that personally- again, I have no nostalgia for 06. I played it after forces. 06 is better imo. But I digress.

Sonic Team- do better.

 

In recent years, the more I hear games like '06 are bad, the more I want to play them. Wish I lived near you to try '06 too. I have a friend with a Wii U that would gladly let my use it if I manage to get a copy of Rise of Lyric. And I'm planning to replay Unwiished and Shadow now I've finished Colors (my most self-biased experience) as well as finish Lost World on Steam, which I stopped playing near the end. Unbiasing myself feels good.

 

I think the biggest streak of good major 3D games (by critics and audiences) is 2 games. Sonic Adventure - Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Colors - Sonic Generations. Maybe 2.5 if you count Sonic Heroes and Sonic Unleashed. That's in 20 years.

 

I didn't say what I said to accuse of people being nostalgia blind, but rather people wouldn't have to "remember the good times" if the current games were actually good. And, this is no dig at your character, younger people are more open-minded when it comes to this type of stuff. If someone told you 06 was good, and you had no pre-conceived biases about it, there's no reason to assume that you wouldn't like it.

And like you said, when you aren't enjoying something in its current state, it's easy to start reminiscing about "the good ole days". That was literally happening when 06 was coming out when most of the older fans of that period weren't really liking what Sonic was the time and wanted it to return to what it was in 90's.

And the thing about it, the things people remember that were done "better" were the same things people were complaining about before. Like fans remember the older stories being "better" for being more serious and in-depth, but those were the same exact things those games were getting criticized for.


It's a weird phenomenon where fans can agree that the series used to be "better", but what exactly was better is what is up for debate. Because depending on who you ask, some would say the 2000 games were "better" versus people who say the 2000 games are just as bad as the current ones, and the series was "better" in the 90's.

The main point I wanted to give though is that when Sonic is good, there's very little anyone complains about. Like yea, there's always going to be a dissenter or two, but that period from Colors to Generations was the most positive time it was to be a Sonic fan. And then it was pissed away with Lost World, then Rise of Lyric, a four year hiatus and then Forces. When you get people's hopes up and then inevitably crush them it's going to leave a bad taste.

 

Yeah, I agree with basically all of that, and thanks for clearing that up.

I understand what you're saying here, and again I agree completely, but...

My jaded mind reverse-interpreted that as "the older fans aren't happy with anything" lmao. Again, I know what you meant, and I'm so so sorry, but I wanted to be honest lol.

Being a Sonic fan is obnoxious sometimes

Sure, and that's a fair assumption, but in my case I had been told 06 was so bad it killed the franchise, and was pleasantly surprised to find out it was a lot better than people make it out to be. No masterpiece by any means, and it deserves it's ratings, but it's no eldritch abomination either. Just kinda a lost soul.