Are the new Sonic games REALLY so bad?

I'm still wondering how they fucked up Havok Physics engine, there's many games that use it properly or modified versions of it built into the engine, etc Half-life 2, Oblivion, Saints Row, the list goes on. Also, why did they decide to use Havok in a SONIC game?

 

One or two good points surrounded by shite, a good game does not make. There's things that you can find and enjoy in just about every game that's out there. Doesn't necessarily mean those games are good. If I bought some more 3D Sonic games, I'm sure I'd find things to enjoy about them, but the several overwhelming flaws would still put me off, I'd consider it a bad game, and I'd wish that I spent my money elsewhere.

 

Well, let's see...

Sonic R:
-Yes, I count this as a modern game, because it's 3D and marks the beginning of the move towards Adventure (I seem to recall reading somewhere that the early Adventure models were just taken from Sonic R). As the first attempt at a 3D Sonic, it was pretty pathetic; everyone controlled... well, like cars. Except for Robotnik and Amy, who WERE cars. Running into a wall spelt certain doom, the jump was nearly useless, and it was really sluggish.
Also, the music.

Sonic Adventure:
Hands down one of my favorite games EVER. I got it when it first came out for the Dreamcast, and again for the Gamecube; I never encountered any technical flaws, the music was great, level design was great, everything about it was wonderful.
Even the awful acting. "IT'S THAT EGGMAN!"

Sonic Shuffle:
Mario Party for people who liked Mario Party but wouldn't admit to owning it. Two downsides; loading time and that idiotic last level.

Sonic Adventure 2:
Levels were like Sonic Adventure, but I miss the expansiveness, adventure stages, and classic vibe of some things like Windy Valley. The added Chao stuff is great, though, and they managed to keep all the gameplay elements of SA1 (except Big, but I won't miss that).

Sonic Advance:
Basically an old-school Genesis game in terms of playability, but it seemed to get insanely hard around the time Sonic meets Knuckles. Pocket Adventure was better.

Sonic Advance 2:
All I remember is holding right, falling off cliffs, and giving up. Cream was actually pretty cool, though.

Sonic Heroes:
This really came the closest yet to having a real old-school Sonic game in 3D. The plot was wonderfully thin, with the interaction between characters (when it happens) being pretty funny. The levels weren't so much "ok how do we fit this into a plot" and "ok how do we fit a plot into this" and more of the old video-game style of "ok let's go from a beach to a power plant for NO REASON". Sadly, the music was junk (although I love the 2007 remake of What I'm Made Of), the three-guy system felt forced, and that haunted castle level was near impossible. If it was, say, Sonic rushing through these zones alone with old-school music, though...

Sonic Battle:
I started playing it and got distracted. I don't care too much for fighting games, but if I did I might like this.

Sonic Advance 3:
Missed it. Wish I didn't.

Shadow The Hedeghog:
You know what? I like this game. Yes, I know, the plot is idiotic, the acting is awful, but let's be honest: this isn't Sonic. It's not a Sonic game, and Shadow is not a blue hedgehog. (We even hear it from Sonic's own mouth during the first level: "Shadow, you can pick up the black aliens' weapons and use them! Me, I wouldn't be caught dead using those things.") I like the shooting, I like the running around and finding things, and I like the huge expansive levels. They weren't quite as memorable and fun as SA2, but still pretty good. Also, the quick four-measure reprise of Live And Learn during the last story sent shivers down my spine.

Sonic Rush:
Sonic was a bit too press-right for me, but I love how innovative it was as a 2.5D platformer using all the DS could give. Also, Blaze's story was really fun.
I like the weird new twist on the music.

Sonic 2006:
Had they put another half-year or year into making this, it could have easily been amazing. Had they not felt the need to meet the Christmas rush and held off even until the NEXT Christmas, this could have easily taken the throne of Best 3D Sonic Game. It had everything; expansiveness, unique elements, replay value, and great graphics and music. Hell, maybe they could've tossed in Chao. Unfortunately, they didn't FINISH it. Editing was so rushed that there are even points where you can hear a failed take of a bit of dialogue followed by the right take, and there are massive empty fields where there MUST have been plans for more things. I would love to see this re-released as Sonic 2009, done CORRECTLY.

Sonic Rush Adventure:
Haven't played it yet.

Sonic And The Secret Rings:
This was the first Wii game I bought. I assumed I was too smart to read the instructions and tried to play the first level with the Wiimote pointed forwards, but after I got used to that I really got into it. Had the Mach Speed sections in Sonic 2k6 been finished, they would have been like this. Multiplayer is also tons of fun, very Shuffle-y (I know, Mario Party ripoff, blah blah). The one problem: Pirate Storm. Falling into the water. All of the time. Oh, and Sonic not jumping when you tell him to.
I liked the music.

Sonic Rivals and Riders:
Don't have a PSP.

Sonic Unleashed:
Either going to be epic or awful. Depends on if they take their time and finish it.

 

They didn't fuck up Havok at all. Havok did what it does perfectly. There was nothing wrong at all with the way the crates and shit were flung around. The only thing they fucked up about it was not using it much. They probably got it hoping to do a lot more with it, were frustrated when they couldn't use it for everything after licensing it out for 250k or whatever it cost at the time, and then decided to create Silver to add a gravity gun to the game.

 

they probably should have put some more thought into their decision to use a Newtonian physics engine in a decidedly non Newtonian setting. Conservation of Momentum does not apply to Sonic

 

They didn't try to apply it to Sonic. Havok doesn't even begin to touch the player characters aside from Silver, and only in the sense of his moves.

 

Isn't it also in regards to object movement, so when you homing attack an enemy, he can go shooting off into an explosive box, destroying another enemy? That was a nice touch, I thought.

 

Haha, I noticed that too. Also, semi-related...I don't get the whole idea of dropped rings moving away from you as you brush past them to pick them up. I mean, yeah it's a realistic effect, but come on...the idea of floating rings voids that whole concept anyways.

 

Oh, I remember seeing something about that in a comic, I think. Who the hell decided that applying havok to the rings was a good idea?

 

I've never seen a vehicle hit by a flying boulder go flying out of the map and the rouge jumping on a crate going flying is normal? Right, I can do this in real life? probably the game's fault rather than Havok.

 

The original Sonic was totally a showcase that the MegaDrive could handle quasi-Newtownian physics at speed -- whilst rolling, Sonic behaves like a marble. I'd say the problem there was that they had the engine in place to drastically overhaul the way the game played, and yet they stuck to the same old 'Adventure and onward' template like it worked well in the first place.

 

If you have a "U" shaped area, you can run a bit up one side, then hold down. By just holding down, you'll build up more and more momentum, which flies in the face of Conservation of Momentum. also, keep in mind that Sonic can maneuver in mid air, under Newtonian rules, turning in mid air would cause him to twist, because of how he spins in mid air (the inability to turn in mid air is the major problem with Sonic 06's Mach Speed Zones).

 

Yes. But I'm pretty sure I already mentioned that.

 

I picked up Secret Rings in a Dutch shop a few days ago and
WORST SONIC GAME EVER

Whoever had the ideas with the Wiimote controls and especially the constant running forward should be strangled with a nunckuck/wiimote combo. And the missin-based gameplay is awful too. Nothing against added replay value, but please don't force the plaer to do these missions in the main game! I don't like these missions anyway and was glad S06 didn't have any in the main stages!
I'm at Pirate Storm's boss by the way, does it get any better later on or should I just resignate and stop playing?

 

Sonicteam already had a Havok Physics license, and they used it on Astro Boy for the Playstation 2. They knew very well what it did and how well it did it long before Sonic 2k6, and it was probably their experience on Astro Boy that lead them to want to use it more. Making dropped rings physics objects was such a horrible idea, though. I mean, in theory it sounds cool, but in practice it makes it very difficult to pick them up because you end up pushing most of them around or you'll get hit with an explosion that causes splash damage, which ends up sending them in to bottomless pits where you cannot go to get them.

Besides that though, what's wrong with using physics as a visual flair? Secret Rings does. I remember like, a month before the game launched they announced a partnership with a physics middleware for Secret Rings, and about the only purpose it serves is for Sonic to knock enemies through walls of crates.

PPA, you sound really picky, judging by your opinions on more recent Sonic games. I can't speak for Secret Rings, of course, but I thought it looked fun and interesting and the majority of people I've heard speak on the game - people who's opinions I trust - say it was the strongest foot forward Sonic's had in 3D in a long time (though still, obviously, rough around the edges - a 9 month development cycle will do that).

 

I gave up before the end of the first section, because the whole first section appeared to me to be the same island but different parts of it over and over and over and over.

 

This being just my opinion, but it's worse than any 3D Sonic thus far. Worse than Heroes, worse than Shadow, a lot worse than Sonic 06. Heck, it's even worse than freaking Sonic Shuffle!

I did find a single thing I like though. That being the presentation of the cutscenes, the stills are nicely drawn. BUT THAT'S ABOUT ALL