We're approaching the Marvel/DC continuum confusion vector where everything is so convoluted the only solution is to reboot and start over. Would not surprise me if Sonic's 30th Anniversary game will basically be a retelling of the Genesis games.
I think going forward by the sound of it Classic will be viewed as being from an alternate dimension, but it breaks Generations too hard for him & Robotnik to not be from the past. Generations Classic and Forces Classic are two different hedgehogs. If Chemical Plant's being referenced in dialogue, I wonder what other zones/locations they're going to throw at us?
I agree with you, this is basically how it's going to be from this point forward. Mania Sonic is probably also the same as Forces Sonic. And their paths diverged after Sonic & Knuckles, Modern Sonic went to Adventure, and the Classic Sonic went to Mania.
There is the concept of time as the fourth dimension of space so technically Generations Classic was from another dimension as well :P I am curious as how they're going to play it. Sonic Team have always complicated things when they can offer simple explanations. Instead 2 worlds why not say they co-exist and there's more areas with humans than animals. The Super Emeralds are just the Chaos emeralds with their power unlocked and they stay that way. The moon was repaired with a master emerald wish offscreen etc etc etc.
Cross-post from the Mania thread. We're supposed to be seeing more from Mania and Forces in about an hour from now via YouTube live at E3: Source: https://medium.com/@geoffkeighley/the-full-schedule-for-youtube-live-at-e3-843014449a4c Times listed are PT (America/Pacific). 2.15 PM converts to 10:15 PM BST. So about an hour from this post.
In an odd way, this makes the most sense. It allows more room for future games with Classic Sonic as well without wrecking any classic 'canon' too much. There is of course another possible explanation: Eggman has just wrongly assumed that this Classic Sonic is from another dimension, and it's going to be some crap joke or plot point until after the boss fight. I do like the idea of this tying into Mania though so that sounds like an exciting concept, even if it's pure head-canon.
This can't be the same classic from Generations, he doesn't have the homing attack Yeah no this game's plot is a load of bullshit, I'm not going to try to understand and I'm not going to care. Other than that... I love the way new Green Hill's looking. Throwing in crazy-ass giant robots and the Dragoon and those plants sucking the life out of everything is finally selling the "deforestation" stuff that the level first presented (other than "SAAAAAAAND!', I mean). Avatar looks like it might be cool, but I haven't seen enough of the other powers to determine if it'll really be much different than the other Sonics. Park Avenue looks cool and all, but there's not much to say, since we just keep seeing the first chunk of it over and over again. The UI looks bad. It's bad. I don't care about UI, but that doesn't mean it's not bad. It's bad. I hope you can turn the voices off. Other than those two things, the game looks cool. Drop dash is a nice implementation, graphics are beyond gorgeous (as usual), and hopefully the game is just held together well enough (and has enough actual CONTENT) to be as good as Generations and Colors were.
I really, really hope they kill the whole "Classic Sonic is a separate character" thing after this game. It's Sonic. Different designs, different ages, but it's still one character, and I hate the fact that they shoehorned him into this and they're going to have to jump through all sorts of narrative loops to justify a decision that is ultimately based on their entirely flawed understanding of what Sonic fans want.
I will say, the jumping and stuff in side-scrolling modern mode looks less floaty, which is what drove me nuts about Colors' 2D segments. So that's nice.
The HUD was driving me crazy. That's all I'm going to say. There's another autotuned thingamajig for the Avatar player in the new Green Hill level, Classic is fighting the Egg Dragoon now (which is actually pretty badass I wasn't expecting that), and character conversations are absolutely everywhere and don't totally make sense yet. There's a lot of stuff they just dropped on us in the two or three minutes Forces was playing, but the one thing that bothers me a lot is the HUD. I know it fits in with the menu design, but the fact that the ring counter blocks that top-left chunk of the screen bothers me a lot. I hope they reevaluate that in the future.
Damn, I'm the probably the only one who likes the hud design. But the implementation could definitely be better so that the ring display and dialogue boxes don't obscure the view. Otherwise we might get some Mighty No 9 style shenanigans.
Yeah, that's all I mean. I think it'd be honestly immature to dislike the aesthetics of something as simple as the HUD. I was referring to the implementation of it blocking out parts of the screen, not necessarily how it looks, if that makes any sense. Thank you for clarifying that.
Watched the E3 stream.. kinda dissapointed that we saw nothing new for both Forces and Mania. Green hill theme for the hero didn't sounded too bad from what I've heard though.
Agreed. I actually like the UI design. It's a nice thematic twist to the standard Sonic style. But that boss health meter needs to go the fuck some place else.
Honestly, the more I see of Forces the worse I think of it. The HUD is hideous and some of the visual effects look incredibly low budget (the homing attack and jump in particular). It looks like Generations on the cheap. The constant inane friend dialogue also looks incredibly worrying, it's going to be mind numbing beyond belief. I'm just bitterly disappointed by this whole thing. I really loved Generations, I thought it had really good level design and was a genuinely great step forward for the franchise after I thought it was dead for good. And now, six years later, I finally get the spiritual successor I always wanted, and it looks like an awful version of Generations with loads of unnecessary shit. I know a lot of people are hyper-critical of Generations now, but that game really does have a special place in my heart. To see Sonic Team make a sequel to Generations but not build upon what made Generations great or popular with fans, and instead shoehorn in loads of pointless gimmicks, has obliterated any hope I had for Sonic Team. I'm just glad Sonic Mania delivered, because my other dream, other than a Generations spiritual successor, was for a game directed by Whitehead. I should point out by the way, some Sonic fans doubted that Whitehead would make a good game when I forwarded the idea years ago :v: https://board.sonicstadium.org/topic/19943-a-sonic-game-directed-by-christian-taxman-whitehead/ This makes it all the more pleasing that Mania really did deliver.
The more I keep seeing this game --all 30 or 60 seconds of it, based on the amount of footage Sega has consistently shown-- the more I'm in disbelief that this is supposed to be a game that has been in development for the past four years (and when I say development, I'm also including the pre-production period before the game's actual production starts). That or Sega's PR / marketing tactics for this game is pulling out all of the stops in milking the worst elements of generating hype. Either way, I'm just feeling a huge lack of confidence (or ineptitude) on how the way this game is selling itself, in both the game's marketing and the gameplay itself. Well, technically, Mania isn't all Whitehead. Stealth and the PWG (/ former Sonic 2 HD) staff are working on it too. You can't leave them out of the equation too, you know.
