SEGA admits that they've been fucking up for the past decade

Lack of promotion or localization is the biggest problem there I think.
But I'll grant you that, I need to play those Yakuza games! Always heard they had some of SOR spirit.

 

I don't want to sound like if I was a casual fan, but Sonic 4 subjectively speaking is a good game, that's an opinion, I'm not asserting nor I'm trying to pass my opinion as a fact. You dislike the game, and that's also an opinion, it's not a fact.

 

Hey Sega want to send out a heartfelt sorry? Make a Sonic Generations 2 and release it for free.

 

You're using "retro themed" veeeery loosely. It didn't resemble the classic games beyond the most superficial way possible, and even that much was warped. It's almost like it was actively trying to mock what the original games were like. With horribly butchered gameplay, some of the most godawful music in the entire series that's some pitiful tacky "attempt" to sound "retro", cheap art style, lackluster mess of a story, and blatant rehashes of past stages with bad level design, it was essentially one big fuck you to fans of the classic games. Sonic 4 had tremendous shoes to fill, and not only did not come anywhere close to filling those shoes, it took a big shit in them and bounced up down smearing shit all over, set them on fire and left them on the fans' doorstep. Sonic 4 is part of Sega's big fuck ups. There's nothing about Sonic 4 that isn't a horrid disgrace and a massive insult to any respecting fan of the classics.

 

To me, the Sega brand was always about quality arcade gaming, followed by quality arcade ports. I haven't really seen anything exciting out of their arcade division of late. There was a brief exciting period where it looked like the RingEdge 2 was bringing the niche NAOMI third party support gang back together (Guilty Gear Xrd, Arcade Love, Under Defeat HD+, Under Night In-Birth), but with nothing really substantial from Sega themselves. Then they seemed to abandon RE2 suddenly for the Nu arcade platform with the next Hatsune Miku game. Since then, nothing. Did the Arcade scene die in Japan too?

 

It's okay, there's a ton of people here that don't know the meaning of the word "subjective". Get past that and you'll be fine.

 

Not to be pedantic, but you are phrasing the word 'subjective' inaccurately. You stated that it was a good game (an objective statement), but what you really mean to say is that you liked the game. It sounds like you are trying to use the word 'subjectively' to present an inarguable point, or universal 'way' of looking at the game (like art, music, gameplay, etc). You basically just said that, 'from a non-factual point of view, this fact is true'.

There's no point in trying to hide behind words like 'subjective', and 'opinion'; state what you observed and felt was positive in the game. Personally, this game did feel like a slap in the face, as it took a massive step backward from its 'marketed' predecessor, in almost every facet of the game. Sonic has no momentum in his physical movement at all, and unrolls after rolling off of a slope into the air. This is fact about the game that I dislike, because it removes almost all exhilaration from elements that in part made its numerical predecessors enjoyable, like loops, and downhill slopes. Imagine playing Chemical Plant Zone with Sonic 4 physics.

(EDIT: clarity)

 

I'm remarking these words due to the fact I was just stating my opinion, I wasn't trying to assert anything as a fact, and if I did, I'm sorry, I actually wasn't trying to do that. Then again, that's your opinion, mine is different. What I feel positive from the game? Well, I actually liked the plot, it was in my opinion simple as the classic games, I specially liked Episode I (not to rest importance from Episode II, though) I also liked Sonic could turn Super when collecting the seven Emeralds, (something not present since a long time ago) I also liked Eggman went back to his roots and the fact the levels' designs were actually challenging. Again, this is my opinion. As I said some posts ago, it mixes classic elements with modern elements, which in my opinion, is a nice idea.

That's what I would call asserting an opinion as a fact, sorry, but respectfully, I don't agree with you, not at all.

 

Not true - the problem is friction/air friction is too high, and outside of scripted objects, when you're not holding a direction it slows you down too quickly (much more quickly than the classic Sonic games).

 

Not just higher friction. Almost everything is stop and go. The semblance of momentum on the ground while moving is noticeably hackish and the fakery can be felt with every awkward lurch Sonic makes. Outside of that, Sonic controls like a car in an indecisive traffic jam.
How a spindash works in Sonic 3&K (no directional input): http://I.gyazo.com/d7ca0e9d259c9d15c3d10750f8e814f9.mp4
How a spindash works in Sonic 4 (no directional input): http://I.gyazo.com/6a74a72e83df5fbed8d2b3c000f5d506.mp4

 

"Sega Learned About Making Quality Games From Atlus"

This has got to be the stupidest quote a company ever said in the history of gaming. Beyond Atari Jaguar levels of stupid. Beyond Historical Japanese Battles against Giant Enemy Crabs stupid.

holy fuck.

 

- says it's not just higher friction.
- shows videos showing only higher friction.

I never claimed it was "just" higher friction; I said there is momentum. If momentum didn't exist, you would not move at all when you let go of down after charging a spindash. But as it turns out, you do. You move right, and not just for a single frame, but for many, and your speed decreases over a number of frames.

Your speed decreases much more rapidly in Sonic 4 than it does in Sonic 3, though. This is because of increased friction.

(Also, I don't generally let go of the controller when I play Sonic games.)

 

I had a feeling someone would mention that. A term like 'Increased Friction' is just a matter of semantics, when the result is the same. I'm not talking about letting go of the controller, I'm talking about letting go of forward on the D-Pad. In Sonic 1-3K, Sonic rolls downhill faster than he can run (especially in the case of Sonic 1, with it's ground speed cap and all). If Sonic approaches a slope while running what is the best course of action from a gameplay standpoint? Keep on running, while vulnerable to enemy collision and moving at a less than optimal speed? Or simply remove your finger from right, and press down to roll, gather speed, and become a speeding ball of destruction?

 

If Sonic Team really is going to get actual time to finish, refine, and play-test a Sonic game for once, we might get another Unleashed to bring things back up again. The potential for huge, fast levels, with tons of gorgeous scenery, on the PS4/XBOX One is too good of an opportunity to miss.

That's a nice reminder, TimmiT. After the recent wave of bad Mobile Sonic games, I forgot SEGA has generally been great in other areas; seriously want those Miku games when I have the PlayStation hardware to play them.

Also, there would have to be a Yazuka demo or two on the PSN before I'd consider those games. While they sound over the top, I'd want to know what I'm getting into before going on Ebay like "OMG I MUST BUY THIS TONIGHT".

 

Sonic Generations was really good. As long as producing quality titles means producing more of the Sonic Generations quality, I'll be a happy camper.

 

It's really not - there is a massive difference between having no momentum whatsoever (technically we're talking about inertia, but whatever), and merely slowing down too quickly due to friction.

The original Rayman had no momentum whatsoever (barring the weird ice physics). It works for Rayman, but wouldn't for Sonic. When you press right, you move right at Rayman's walking speed, instantly. When you let go of right, you stop moving, instantly. There's no acceleration or friction involved whatsoever. That is what it means to not have momentum, and the result is very different.

Mario, on the other hand, has always had a high friction value, especially in the 3D games where it's higher than Sonic 4's. Let go of the controller while running in Mario Galaxy and watch how quickly you stop. Run off a ledge and watch what happens. You don't immediately stop - you quickly stop. Play as Luigi and see what happens with lower friction.

The difference between "no momentum whatosever" and "higher friction value" is enormous when it comes to the way the game feels. If Sonic 4 had used the Rayman model you would see it getting even more hate than it currently gets.


As for the rest of it, I'm not disagreeing that S1-3K are much better. But when you see the average Joe play a Sonic game, they often don't roll down hills. They often hold right and run into everything, smashing it up afterwards. To these people, the physics changes aren't even noticeable, because they're pressing in the direction they want to move.

 

I want to believe.

But this has to be more than half decent Sonic game, Shenmue 1 and 2 HD and another decent Sega based racing game. Which I really think this is all they are going to do.

Make Game Sega. Make Game Please.