The Sonic 3, 20th Anniversary & Knuckles Thread

This would be fantastic if a new completely original game for the classic line eventually got green-lit. Have you and Taxman been working on any new Proof-of-Concept work to pitch to Sega?

 

I'm just here playing S1 on Android, and I got a Game Over on LZ3. Cue the continue screen, and subsequently being warped back to the start of the stage. But if I didn't have any continues, guess I'd have just gone back to the main menu. If there any point to keeping continue in these remakes when they serve no function with save modes?

Just a little thing I think should probably be omitted from S3 unless you're in no-save mode.

 

Concerning Chaotix, it would indeed be difficult to make improvements in the game compared to the others since the main issues are the actual level structure itself. That said there has been shown to be SOME leeway in this, SEGA has at least allowed new paths and areas in the original levels (those who disliked Marble Zone's structure were probably thankful for the new shortcuts for example) and they could also be put into adding more depthful gameplay. Let's say where an awkward dead end used to be, there is now a breakable wall that only certain characters like Knuckles can get through, leading to a funner shortcut, or flying as Charmy can lead to a new upward pathway instead of just empty space. Some changes could perhaps also be made if they can allow new gimmicks added in a way that doesn't alter the original structure (eg. Marina Madness keeping it's normal structure but with water added to the lower areas, as was seemingly intended, or omitted badniks taking up empty space). I dunno how finicky SEGA are about any of this. but going by the previous projects it doesn't seem completely out of bounds, especially if it was deleted material intended for the original instead of all new stuff. They'd likely need to go through some heavy agreements however.

Sorry, I know we've stopped talking about old games, Chaotix just intrigues me (even if Taxman's team doesn't take the project, it's always something to think about for a fan hack). I have faith a new game by the team would be even more a joy to play, so if it gets authorised, then definitely go for it, but of course, since we don't know what'd be in it outside possibilities in the proof in concept video, there's not as much to talk about yet. They love surprising us after all.

 

There hasn't been anything so solid as the Sonic 3 pitch; that takes a long time to make. There were a few ideas early-to-mid last year, but there wasn't sufficient interest. Right now we've moved on to other stuff, with Taxman starting a new indie game with a new engine and me working on HCGE and Project HC. Can't be waiting for them to wise up forever

QA complained about the lack of continues before we even had time to implement it in the first place. Figured we might as well keep it since it was a part of the original game, and if nothing else it does still save a small bit of time rather than dumping you straight to the menu

The new routes were designed to be inaccessible by Sonic alone; less dumping a level map from the raw data or using Debug Mode, you should never see those areas of the level to know that there wasn't already anything there in the originals

Contrary to the above, this is modifying parts of the existing, reachable level structure, and even restricting changes to certain characters, those are also characters that already exist and had all of their abilities in the original version of the game. That's why it's very unlikely that you'll ever see something like this happen, and also partially why you never saw Desert Dazzle and Final Fever, as they were whole new levels to be added to the main game as a mandatory part of gameplay. Hidden Palace was a special case mostly due to the fact that we did hide it (so it wasn't made mandatory to play) and the fact that they were already aware of how super-popular it was because there had been 20 years'-worth of articles, interviews, websites, emails, etc for them to absorb. Notice the lack of any other cut level; none of them ever became nearly as much of a big deal

Would it really have been that much more difficult to say "Taxman and Stealth"? :P
I'm the only person who worked with him, and I was contracted as my own business entity, Headcannon, which is separate from Taxman's own "Christian Whitehead"; neither of us are actually a part of the other business

To address an extremely-common misconception - If the project had been taken, no one would ever have seen anything regarding Sonic 3 until it was nearly finished and SEGA themselves created a teaser trailer that they decided to release on their own. The only reason we put up a video of our own was that the project wasn't taken, so SEGA didn't own it, there was no NDA, and the video and blog post were uploaded four months after the pitch was rejected. This isn't how SEGA operates, so you can bet that if we do get a contract, you won't know anything about it until it's almost in your hands, which could take around a year or so at minimum (and you'd hear whatever they want you to hear from them first, not us). Unless it's actually been rejected, we have to abide by the NDA we haven't even signed yet

 

Ah, my mistake then. As said, I have no idea what SEGA mandates, I was just assuming by how the previous ports turned out.

Eh, doesn't sound like there's much leeway in fine tuning Chaotix even if it did get authorised then. Even with the standard lovely extras, it seems those insanely bland level designs would still have to be kept.

And my apologies for the referring. I say Taxman's team by reflex since they are so frequently referred to as 'the Taxman ports', etc. I don't mean to undermine your half, especially since you are trying to keep it all running.

 

Question.

Stealth has been very vocal but what about Taxman? has he just been too busy or is he bowing out of this whole campaign?

 

Continues in S3&K already let you restart from your last starpost instead of the beginning of the zone for exactly this reason - the existing save system already made old-style continues redundant. So effectively, they're an awkwardly-expressed 3up that erases your score if dipped into.

 

Heh, the extents dedicated fans go to for this game. I really hope something gets happening for this.

That aside, Leila Wilson [Woofle as some may know her] (she worked on Freedom Planet!) has taken up a whole new initiative regarding this project and here's what she has to say about it.

https://soundcloud.com/leila-wilson-woofle/sets/sonic-3-alternate

Here's the stuff she's done for her initiative!

If these kinda legal troubles are really what's stopping this project, I hope something like this could help solve the issue.

 

SEGA has a shit ton of people to tap into for replacement music, but it's still cool to see the gesture from fans.

 

You're right, it is redundant.
I'm actually not expecting these songs to somehow magically end up in the game. It's something I'm doing to raise awareness for the fan-driven campaign to get the game made, and nothing more. I'm glad you liked the music, though! :D

Edit: Quotation fail! Fixed now.

 

To be fair, they contracted a fan to work on 3 games. I think a fan composed soundtrack might not be outside the realm of possibility, though still unlikely.

 

Nah, put it in perspective. They contracted a fan to trace the footsteps of 3 games, sticking as closely 1:1 to the original with new things being bonus features and a bonus zone with like half a dozen caveats. Completely different from a fan all-new soundtrack replacing arguably the most mainstream part of the original S3&K (MJ estate hurr durr)

And this is me saying this after working on the music of multiple AAA titles.

 

Personally, I'm hoping they can use the original soundtrack and don't have to hire anyone else -- if they did though, they at least have plenty of good artists to go to. I'm hoping that these songs really will inform a few new people about this whole thing though! :D

 

Oh I mean it's fine even if these tracks aren't used but man, I just wish every solution would get eradicated and that this remake actually happened, but oh well. In any case, looking forward to Taxman's new thing he just mentioned haha!

 

A 3D engine, you say? Looking forward to that.

 

It's been picked up by the Guardian (I emailed Keith last week, but it looks like he got it from Pocket Arcade). Unfortunately, it's buried in a blog post:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/feb/19/future-sonic-the-hedgehog-probably-free-to-play-sega

 

From this we can deduce that a sudden, unexpected radio silence is a good sign. I'll keep this in mind.