Sonic 2 Original Music Allocations

Love this post but ehhhh....

Sonic CD and 3 & Knuckles makes it plainly obvious bongos are more of a universal percussive instrument and can be tangible in all situations it sees fit, so I say that's a BIIIT of a stretch, it's also cool that you pointed out the rich deep bass.

Again, Metropolis, and futhermore, it's attachment to Wood Zone leaves alot to be desired, since a popular theory that was floating around is the song's association with the aforementioned Wood level. I've heard alot of parallels with this song and Mushroom Hill from 3K and honestly I can't unhear it.

Cool to see what assessments you've put into this post though, it's cool to see people take their hand at figuring out the correct soundtrack for this game, it comes unique for everybody.

 

I always found it very suspect that MCZ 2P changed percussion so dramatically from the demo.


In the demo, it's clearly going for a tribal or jungle vibe with the drums. These kinds of bongos are not present in any of the other demos. But in the final game, and even in the Wai build, it's changed to something...sci-fi-ish. It's not even the same rhythm. I suppose it's possible Masa was going for a prehistoric vibe, based on the HPZ mockup, but its placement in the final sound test makes me believe it was intended for Wood Zone but then retrofitted for HPZ.

EDIT: As long as we're letting fandom and what-ifs get to our heads, here's my idea of a "completed" Sonic soundtrack along with renamed zones:

1. Title Theme
2. File Select (2P Results)
3. World Map (Options)
4. Emerald Hill
5. Knothole (MCZ 2P)
6. Sand Shower (OOZ)
7. Metropolis
8. Blue Lake (EHZ 2P)
9. Hill Top
10. Hidden Palace (Song #10)
11. Aquatic Ruin
12. Winter Wonder (SCZ)
13. Oil Ocean (CNZ 2P)
14. Mystic Mountain
15. Casino Night
16. Chemical Plant
17. Cyber City (DEZ)
18. Death Egg (WFZ)
19. Ending
20. Credits

 

I wonder how much Masa knew about the game other than the concept art. I think its possible he might have gotten written notes too. The most notable thing about the beginning of the Masa Super Sonic track is the cool blaring alarms. But if you listen carefully it has the same crescendo melody as near the beginning of the Special Stage track. It's hard to hear but it is there. In the final OST it is very easy to notice because the alarms were removed.

I think Masa may have gotten notes that Sonic turns Super after collecting the Chaos Emeralds and the Special Stages were where you got Chaos Emeralds. Since I don't think it would be logical to link the Special Stage and Super Sonic tracks through a shared musical motif unless you had notes pointing out how they were related. Since if you just saw concept art of Special Stage you could just think it was like any other fantasy level.

 

People often bring up that the final HPZ track also has similarities to the special stage music, albeit with a less energetic and more melancholic or nostalgic vibe. Which goes with the whole concept of Hidden Palace as an ancient lost place where Sonic was supposed to get his Super form. So he was probably also informed of the HPZ-Super Sonic connection.

 

I feel like the idea the Options music was originally a world map or intro scene music is likely since it shares a melody motif with the ending theme. Ring-composition.

 

I mean I believe the world map theory, since I've seen the S2 Archives rom hack use that track for its map and it works decently.

Honestly the only one I'm not quite jelling with is MCZ 2P for Knothole (which I assume is Wood Zone), the demo, Wai, and final versions of the song still feel more like a lost cavern kinda thing. Especially since even since Wai, it was used in HPZ. The rest seems to check out fairly nice tho, and thank god for using a cute wintery name for its zone rather than Rock World, that never fit the zone's aesthetics and SCZ music.

 

Can you knot?

Yes Wood Zone is a boring name but it's the only official name the level got afaik. It's very easy not to casually spread misinformation online ya know.

 

It also got "Secret Jungle". Oh, and "Woods Zone"

And yeah "Wood Zone" sounds boring, but it's along the lines of Marble Zone.

I'd say it's a lot more fitting than the overly cheery and sunny EHZ 2P track, personally. It always baffled me when ROM hacks gave that song to a deep and dark jungle like Wood Zone.

 

Probably because it wasn't anywhere near final. If development had continued Secret Jungle would probably be closer to it's finalized name (which is also reminiscent of Hidden Palace...hmm)

Edit: actually, was the Secret Jungle label used on the S2 concept art of Wood Zone or the updated Mushroom Hill version? Things get a little confusing for level concepts that were recycled for S3

 

The former. The updated MHZ version was labelled Mushroom Forest.

 

So would that make the progression for its name in the entirety of S2/S3 development something like: Wood Zone -> Woods Zone -> Secret Jungle -> Mushroom Forest -> Mushroom Valley (via S3 level select) -> Mushroom Hill? Sorry this is probably getting off-topic, I just wanted to clarify.

 

Close. Swap the first two and you got it.

And then there is S1SMS' Jungle Zone...

 

Off topic but i've just been calling it "Woods Zone" since its more fun to say and it makes more sense to me lmao

 

Wasn't there also other unused songs found in some OST CD/album for Sonic 2? I swear on my life this is something I've seen and heard but for whatever reason I'm not finding anything on Google atm.
I recall there also being a version of Hidden Palace Zone's music, the one unused from the sound test, that had an actual ending to the track.

 

For the latter, you're referring to the "Masa's Demo Versions" by Nakamura, which were first released as part of the 2011 soundtrack release. There are no other unused Sonic 2 tracks on that disc, however.

An unrelated aside: I love that this soundtrack was released by DCT Records, and is still in print. This needs to be the case for more important soundtracks like this.

 

Regarding this, can I just add that the final boss theme sounds eerily similar to The Imperial March?

 

I'm still not sold on why we're saying HPZ using MCZ2P's music is only because of an agenda held by Stealth. It's the music for the stage in the Simon Wai betas, is it not? Isn't that the same kind of material we're going off of for the other music?

Besides, I think there's still a lot of holes in HPZ's music being track #10. If we're trying to make sense of it being the Warp Point (if we even know for sure it WAS) then maybe I get it, but at one point in development it was definitely longer than just one room, and possibly had multiple acts. We know the track wasn't originally supposed to loop, and if it were (before finishing via cutscene) then I doubt it were to be in an area you stayed in for too long.

If they dropped the "Warp Point" idea and intended to convert it into a full stage very early into development, they could've very easily chosen MCZ 2P to be the track playing behind it, much like they did when shuffling songs around later on. But that's just my conjecture.

 

I said I was renaming zones as a fan, not that it's the official name. I just think it'd be a cleverer title if the fully imagined version of S2 was made. "Secret Jungle" just sounds redundant next to "Hidden Palace" or especially "Secret Palace". I'm not trying to spread misinformation nor am I saying it should be the new fan title.

If I REALLY wanted to show my autism, I'd rename Hidden Palace to "Elysium".

Yeah, keep in mind Stealth made the mobile remaster in 2013, and back then we didn't have anywhere near the amount of information we have today. We didn't have the maps, we didn't have the concept art, we didn't have the other prototypes, etc. Back then, that's what the evidence pointed to.

 

Not really, even back then it was generally believed that track 10 was the final HPZ track. I mean, it was assigned to HPZ at some point by the devs. It fit a special ancient location. We didn't know of any other planned levels it could have fit. And when Naka revealed in the late 00s the intended purpose of Hidden Palace, it only made this one seem even more special a level.

In fact as early as the late 90s/early 00s Stealth would go into arguments with people about the track -- most people believed it was intended for HPZ even back then (hence why even early hacks like Sonic 2 Delta used it), he was in the minority and vehemently held that it didn't solely because he didn't think it fit. It was after the OST was released that he dropped that in favor of "its demo track appears to have an ending".

That's large part of the reason people blame him for the remaster using the MCZ 2P track. He has a long of history of trying to discredit track 10 dating back to the Simon Wai days.

 

In 2013, the only evidence we had stating HPZ was a short cutscene level (like it is in S3) was Naka's own comments. What we had in our hands (the prototypes) combined with Craig's comments suggested otherwise, that HPZ was a full two-act zone just like any other level in the game. The 2011 demo was clearly unsuitable for such a stage, and the fact that it had an ending WAS fairly strong evidence that it was meant for a cutscene. Whether or not track 10 was composed originally for HPZ, or whether HPZ was always meant to be a cutscene level, is irrelevant: the fact is that Sonic Team intended HPZ to be a fully playable non-cutscene stage at one point, and if it had made it into the final game in that capacity, it would've had MCZ 2P's theme.

I can't speak for Stealth's personal feelings clouding whatever was "intended" for Sonic 2 back in 1992, as I'm unfamiliar with his past community posts (I'm surprised you are, considering you've only been here as long as I have) but as an official Sonic developer contracted by Sega, he had the right to take whatever creative liberties Sega would let him get away with, regardless of what's true.