Almost 8 hour long video about why Sonic CD is a masterpiece

Work that sucker to death, come on now

 

I like this thinking even if I don't fully agree. If I understand your ideas right, I think you're correct that players do make choices in spite of the abundance of them and aren't really paralyzed by having too many choices, but I don't agree consequences aren't consequential in gaming because it's up to the player to consider their own stakes. Quickly restarting or losing a life may range from firing the player up to being the mildest inconvenience to being rage-inducing, and these aren't even mutually exclusive: losing while fired up in a gambling game fires players up while being rage inducing and drives them to make the terrible choice of gambling more -- real money may or may not be involved, and it changes things but doesn't make so qualitatively different that choices in video games aren't meaningful. It's a result of the particular dynamic that particular player has with that particular game at that particular time.

So while I think you're right in considering the problem in Sonic CD isn't there being too many choices, I differ in defining the problem as a clash of solutions. I think it's a clash of problems that blindsides people the most. I say that because "problems" or "obstacles" aren't also directly inscribed in a level. They may be suggested, but it's the player who formulates them according to what they think they need, what they want, what they can see etc. It's a constant process, constantly being updated by new information, feelings, constraints, perception of one's skill etc. So the thing is that if a player can't formulate a problem they think they can tackle, they can't organize a solution in their head, and that's kind of detaching. Like the example the essayist constantly uses in the video, about the first Future signpost in Collision Chaos. He thinks in terms of it "teaching" the player how to control their air movement, but I don't believe that. He says most players fly straight through it and end up in an unwanted Bad Future later. I don't think that happens because players lack skill, necessarily. It's because "being in an unwanted Bad Future" is a very hard problem to formulate, so it's very hard to address. Because you have to:

• Touch a Future signpost
• Maintain speed for long enough

But both of these actions are pretty natural and you usually won't and don't need go out of your way to avoid them, and maintaining speed is even necessary for addressing other problems. So you'll realize it's working against you far too late, and end up wrestling against the elements on the screen when you have no chance to escape. He mentions how, when time traveling, elements on the screen that would otherwise be read as adversarial become tools to keep momentum; if you notice you DON'T want to time travel, that becomes a huge problem, and the whole stage turns against you. So it's not a question of there being too many choices or solutions, but a question of problems being kind of unreadable in the objective structure at some points.

But, likewise, I disagree when he says Sonic CD lacks conveyance. There's nothing to convey here: the game never outright says the bad future is a fail state. It's the player that will usually interpret it as such on account of having to time travel yet again. But you could just as well get your 50 rings through the finish line and go to the special stage, unbothered -- if that's the problem you formulated.

 

These overly long essays are getting ridiculous. Here, let me sum up the whole video with a tldr:
"CD gud gaem"
I haven't watched a single second of the video but i know this is probably what it boils down to.

 

Need a 16 hour video of someone saying "CD bad"

 

That would be a code analysis.
Just need Devon to finish his disasm and we can get to making that video

 

That's the content I'm here for baby

 

Why do we need Devon to finish his disassembly before we can analyse the code? There's a decompiled C version available right now!

 

The C code doesn't look nearly as horrendous as the stuff in 93, imo. Especially in the IPX, which granted has already been disassembled.

 

they don't come off like that at all, they come off like their length is a sign of quality, as though if it is 8 hours long, it HAS to be comprehensive and therefore rock-solid. Whenever I see videos with runtimes like this, I feel like the length is the entire point, not a by-product. It's meant to be so impressively long, that you HAVE to believe they have something to say.

 

If I ever had eight hours to spare, I could think of more rewarding things to do than watch this. I already know CD is a masterpiece.

 

Long != impressive. I guess some people have really had the idea of essays with high word count as being the ultimate ideal burned into their skulls, but what good is an 8 hour essay if the meaning is lost on most people because of the scale?

Ultimately, if you want to effectively communicate an idea to someone you want to make your arguments clear and concise. All stretching it out to 8 hours does is confuse the points you're trying to make, it is *not* the mark of genius or wit.

 

For my vids... it's entirely a by product

I can only speak for myself here but, I don't aim for my game analysis videos to be over an hour in length, but it really is impossible to make something decent without that happening.

For example, I'm currently writing a script for a Frontiers analysis video, the first segment on the tutorial is 3 pages in length...

"Do you really need to take 10min say Frontiers has a terrible tutorial?"

No, but I do need 10min to explain WHY its a terrible one.

If I only say "Ths bad, this good" all I do is get cheers from people who agree, but if I explain in detail why I think something, even those who disagree are going to go away thinking, and I'm also more likely to win people over...

Now, that said....

There comes a point where you have to consider your audience, with some styles of video this is easier than others Jenny Nicholsons star wars Hotel vid is a good example of how a long video works, its so light hearted yet clearly illustrates the problems, its also a very simple video to watch, 90% of it is just a piece to camera with home movie footage spliced in.

It's also basically a story when you get down to it.

Game analysis videos are a little different, it's easy to fall into the trap of repeating footage/similar b-Roll, this makes it dull for the long run... and... its more of lecture than a story.

So there comes a point where you do have to say 'enough'. Unless you are making some VERY clever edits for the entire runtime. In my SA1 and SA2 video, I used a free camera mod to make unique visuals and camera angles to help tell a story and explain things, so people didn't feel like they were just watching gameplay clips for 3 hours.

But with CD, that's not really possible. Same with most classic games.

So whilst I don't doubt an 8 hour long video has got the view numbers because people have gone "What's this about?" But I doubt that's seen much more of a higher average watch time than one of mine has.

TlDr: video essay length for most people who take this seriously is a by product, but as vid creator, there does come a point where you have to say 'no more'.

 

I just want to point out that the fact that we still have a thread here discussing this... one which hasn't died yet...

That means the guy won. You win the social media game with engagement. Quality and merit of argument are only part of the factor (and right now I won't comment on the video's quality one way or another)

If you don't like this guy's content, stop posting about it. That makes it go away, lol

 

It's a slow week. It's time for our bi-annual "Guys, is Sonic CD good?" thread.

 

Above all else, it's unnecessarily mean to deride the video based on unfounded assumptions about the intentions behind a feature you don't like. You can think it's unnecessary for the video to be 8 hours long, which it most definitely is (again, the video's scope goes way beyond "Sonic CD good"), but to assume the creator's doing some sort of insidious smoke and mirror tactic to appear authoritative -- as if writing, recording, voicing over and editing 8 hours of video wasn't one hell of an undertaking regardless of the merit of the arguments -- is just being an asshole for no reason.

 

I wasn't speaking for the author here, nor am I arguing for "long=good/efficient". I'm speaking for myself (and admittedly I like absurdly long videos).
Again, the appeal is seeing someone just go on and talk about a specific interest, engaging in a sense of shared experience, even if you don't agree on everything.
These videos are not trying to be antagonistic or act smarter than you (well certainly not this one).

 

In around 2004/5 my grand parents gave my brother and I an Expert software rerelease of the game in the “Action 4 Pack” and that’s how I first played it. I didn’t even know a sega CD existed until roughly when the marketing for the rerelease picked up. Most “gamers” in our small town who had PCs had the game so I think it being casted as the rare hidden gem is a little bit of an exaggeration. That’s just my own experience though.

 

Maybe YOU don't do it purposefully, but with 100% certainty many, many youtubers specifically target extreme lengths, because Youtube purposefully pushes longer content through the algorithm. It's not even a secret, so many of them openly admit it. If you want to "go viral," you have to make long videos. I look up "Sonic CD reviews" on youtube and get literally thousands of results, but this one got a topic on this board, and best I can tell it's pretty much solely because it's 8 hours long.

https://digiday.com/future-of-tv/creators-making-longer-videos-cater-youtube-algorithm/

https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/26/...points-lindsay-ellis-shelby-church-ad-revenue

https://www.descript.com/blog/article/how-long-should-a-youtube-video-be

https://backlinko.com/grow-youtube-channel#optimize-for-watch-time

and so forth.

It's nothing nefarious, but videos on youtube are purposefully long. The length is very much the point, because it's what you have to do to fight for visibility on the platform by design.

As for calling people "assholes" for "disparaging" the video: I'm giving my feedback. I don't want to watch 8 hour long videos, and I know people make these videos because Youtube's analytics think we like them so much.

 

Yeah for what it's worth there are a lot of Sonic CD videos out there and this was the first one that was pushed to me aggressively even though I avoided it the first few days.

That being said, I'm going to choose to assume the author just had a lot to say about Sonic CD and leave it there. I'm probably not going to watch the full thing, just not interested enough in the subject matter and there's games I'd rather be playing, but what I have seen isn't as cynically padded as some of the worst of these made-for-algorithm giga essay monstrosities. Actual thoughts that change how I think about the game are being put down. I just wish being concise was as valued of a skill as critical thinking.

 

Tried watching the video but my ADHD is really working against me. Will try watching again later.

Here's my two cents:

Saying the Taxman remaster is transformative for Sonic CD is an understatement. It's the definitive way to play.

• Despite the difference in air control, SCD spin dash is disappointing compared to Sonic 2's and slower to perform;
• The game had performance issues on the original hardware, often running at 30fps; It was distracting.
• Metallic Madness 2 Past couldn't be finished due to a badly-positioned spring. This was fixed for the Dino/Win 95 port (Taxman fixed it slightly differently).
• The maze-like quality of the levels required more field of view. They tried addressing that with a different camera, but there's no comparison to an actual widescreen version of the game.

Now unrelated to the 2011 changes -- if you look into the level design, some time zones changes don't make sense. It's clear someone modified the present levels to make them "more feature rich" with disregard to the other timezones:

• PPz 1 has pseudo-3D sections only in the present timezone.
• PPz has a completely different background (perspective, vegetation, rocky structures) only in the present
• TTz 1 has the open section background only in the present.
• TTz 1 has the floating log mechanic only in the present.
• Just look at https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_CD/Maps and compare -- a lot of stuff was there in the past, then got changed in the present only to reappear in the future.

I think Sonic CD is still a very nice game.

It's fun; both soundtracks are amazing; and the art is phenomenal.
But if we're considering just the original releases it's easily the least polished of the three.