Sonic CD's place in the timeline - Naoto Ohshima's Opinion

Wait, I recall it being mentioned by him that Sonic the Hedgehog CD came after Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive), since Metal Sonic is the 'final evolution' of the Mecha Sonic line? I mean, I've a headcanon addressing such an issue, but I doubt he shares said headcanon...

Edit: found the quote:

 

Mind if I use that conversation to address the misinformation of the placement?

 

Oh, I'm someone who looks through the Japanese manuals with a fine-tooth comb, you don't need to go into detail for me. His engine is a fusion reactor for a theoretical universal energy (orgone), which is why I've that headcanon of him being built of future tech. His origin game has time travel, I'm using time travel.

Resolving the issue of his being the most advanced Mecha Sonic, while also being the first, is easy enough to do. It's just a case of confusion between a developer's words.

 

Honestly I'm quite fond of that theory. It makes a lot of sense considering it's now official that CD takes place before 2.

Not that I think they'll ever officially recognize that theory, but it would add interesting context to Metal's character. He was built out of future technology to beat and surpass Sonic as the "true Sonic" but is himself constantly defeated. For as impressive as he is, he can't claim legitimacy.

 

Originally, Ken Balough seem to suggested that Sonic 4 moved Sonic CD's placement. He was attributed as saying the following in this Sonic Retro article:
When asked about the curious use of Sonic 4 assets in the reveal trailer for the game, Balough confirmed that Sega has retrofitted Sonic CD‘s place in the timeline as after Sonic 3 and Knuckles but before Sonic 4: Episode 1. The rationale behind this was that Sonic CD’s developers never put any direct mention of Sonic CD‘s place in the timeline.

Trailers released at the time also seemed to put Sonic CD in between Sonic 4 ep 1 & 2.

After these comments/trailers came out, there was a lot of confusion. So Ken went on the Sega.com forums to say the following:

I’ve seen some confusion about Sonic CD being a prequel – and it is!! Just as you imagined it.
which is basically my way of saying – allow me to illuminate the situation.

Remember back during Ep 1, I was saying we had outlined a great story for the Sonic 4 Saga? It all come back to that Cliffhanger at the end – where we brought back Metal Sonic. Sonic CD was never really tied to the numberical Sonics in any significant way back in the 90’s. Sonic 4 is going to change that, and bridge these adventures together in a meaningful way.
While we are not taking away “when CD happened” in relationship to the numerical versions, we can tell you that the events in CD are very important to 4 (as you can imagine from us bringing Metal Sonic back)

So before we take you to Ep 2, we’re gonna give all you fans a chance to experiance CD for the first time in years – and with a terrific presentation in wide screen. And yes the physics are fine!

So as you can see from the Trailer we created – Sonic took a slight detour into “The Past”, and later will be propelled back into the future to resume the Sonic 4 Saga

So it doesn't sound like Sonic 4 moved it (he states "While we are not taking away “when CD happened” in relationship to the numerical versions") They were just drawing on Sonic CD's story for Sonic 4 and in trying to convey that connection they unintentionally made it seem like it was moved.

 

Not even sure why Sonic the Hedgehog CD would even need to move for Sonic the Hedgehog 4, according to the retrofitted comment that was in error. Last I checked, the Little Planet drops in once a year for a month. Did it forget its car keys and double back?

 

I've always taken for granted that CD is set after 1 and before 2, personally. I'm not sure how or why I came to that conclusion but it is what it is. Admittedly I never thought about the obviously inferior Mecha Sonic coming after Metal as an oddity but it's a good point. My head canon is now that Mecha Sonic in 2 was intended to be superior, but was unfinished and Eggman somehow made a complete version in time for Sonic 3.

 

Regarding the stuff quoted about Sonic 4, does 4 in the continuity even matter at this point? I always assumed Sonic 4 was sort of 'written out of canon' after the reception on both titles were mixed. Weren't there plans for an 'Episode 3' that never materialized? As a result, I always considered 4 a story that was never properly finished in the same way Chronicles never got a chance to finish itself. Had it gotten a proper ending, I'd re-evaluate it on a potential timeline of my own.

The only thing that 4 really adds is Metal's resurrection, but Mania also provided an alternative resurrection for him and there's not a whole lot that contradicts the idea that Eggman just...rebuilt Metal after the events of 3K. Eggman would have decent reason to return to Metal's design anyways.

Silver Sonic's fight is kinda short in-game and he's completely destroyed inside the Death Egg. I could see Eggman discarding him as 'worthless' as a result. Mecha ends up going rogue in Knuckles' storyline, and who's to say Eggman sanctioned the use of those Egg Mobiles against Sonic? Metal ended up being the most 'obedient' of the bunch prior to Heroes, and also was the only one who sort of succeeded in a task (kidnap Amy). It sort of makes sense for Eggman to go back to the most successful of the bunch and iterating on that design.

But yeah, CD taking place after 1 but before 2 just seems a bit more logical to me. Sonic has a version of the Spindash that we never see again that feels a lot more primitive compared to the one in 2. The Death Egg's birth also makes a bit more sense if you say 2 came afterwards. Conquering an entire planet doesn't work out for Eggman, so he spends more time constructing his own artificial one so everything is ready from the get-go and as a middle finger to Sonic. Can't conquer a planet? Ah, then I'll just build one!

There's a lot of headcanoning you kinda have to do either way you really look at it, but CD from a game design standpoint is a fair bit closer to 1 like Ohshima says. It is probably a nicer transitional piece into the other numbered Genesis titles regardless.

 

I don't think Mecha Sonic ever went rogue? Eggrobo just took over Eggman's role in Knuckles' story after the real deal was defeated by Sonic and went missing/left Angel Island, so Mecha followed him. If he had gone rogue he would probably be acting independently, not with Eggrobo. His destruction of this one was an accident.

 

Why is this even a problem?

Sonic CD is a totally self contained story that has no direct impact on the other games, beyond Metal Sonic and Amy returning later in various forms.

It could always fit anywhere after Sonic 1, 2, or 3K without much issue. Sonic continued to have solo adventures even after he met Tails. And Amy does not need to be in every game. Mecha/Silver Sonic can exist simultaneously with Metal Sonic and have different use cases based on different design ideas.

The classic game storyline is not some complex, complicated well thought out canon. It's a bunch of stolen anime (and some cartoon) tropes stuck together to loosely justify gameplay. The canon of the game gear games makes little to no sense either and is just left to be whatever you want them to be. We never even had definitive proof that Sonic 1 was Sonic and Eggman's first encounter.

I'm all for lore and timelines, but to me this has always been a bit silly because there's very little to justify much of any timeline beyond maybe saying "character shows up here, character also shows up in a later game", which even THEN has never quite been straight forward. A lot of people believed Sonic 2 GG was before Sonic 2 MD for many years too.

 

Sorry, I was in a rush and only found that cutoff quote. That's my error.

 

I took it to be after Sonic 2 not that I Sonic games as a series in story and narrative terms and more treat each game in its own right.
I also thought Sonic CD 1st started out as a remake of Sonic 2 on the Mega CD, used to read that lot in the mags back then. I wonder of they was any truth in it

 

Story without background- this is what makes Sonic CD feel like spin-off, and this is what causes very lots of questions.
I disagree with take, that "Mecha Sonic is worse than Metal Sonic". They can be just for different purposes, Metal is literally copy that can run at big speeds, Mecha mk1 (s2) it's a big iron terminator who prefer to use force instead of speed, and Mecha mk2 (s3k) it's a fusion of both of them, and better of them all because he survived in battle versus Sonic, and even can use Master Emerald power!
At least, you could've say so if Oshima wouldn't say that "Metal is evolution of Mecha"
Also, the fact that CD has no proper point in the story gives SEGA power to put it wherever they want. The moved from "nowhere" to "after s1", to "between s3 and 4" and back to "between s1 and s2". I wouldn't be very surprised, if SEGA in future will pit it "after Sonic 5", or will put it wherever they will decide. Just don't trust to studio, that changes canon of the entry franchise like once in 3-4 years
(Yes, Classic Sonic that actually older than Modern Sonic, I'm looking at you)

 

In this interview, Oshima says the following:

But Sonic CD wasn't Sonic 2; it was really meant to be more of a CD version of the original Sonic.

So it looks at one point he might have seen it as a follow-up to Sonic 1 rather than something coming after Sonic 2.

 

How is that different from Sonic 2? If Sonic 3 hadn't come along to establish a narrative surrounding the Death Egg, it would have been as loose timeline-wise as Sonic CD.

 

I don’t really care about “the timeline” because it seems to change every day, but from a purely gameplay perspective I think CD should be played after 1 and before 2 because it plays very much like a Sonic 1 follow-up, and it feels strange to go from the slow-paced Sonic 1, then to the faster Sonic 2, then go back to a trippy version of Sonic 1, then go to S3&K which is kind of like S2 on steroids. It feels much more organic and natural to go from S1, “trippy S1” aka Sonic CD, Sonic 2, then “super Sonic 2” aka S3&K.