Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

It was the first thing I thought of when the trailer premiered and I was happy to find out many people also had that reaction. I remember Fan Remix well. It was what people were saying Sonic 4 should have been in YouTube comments way before Mania released. So, if this looks like that and plays like classic games, it's a good thing. I am hoping it isn't a short game. If nothing else, Ohshima-san being involved is a positive thing and a big deal.

 

I think this would be a great final level obstacle. It would be too hard tho for the first level imo

 

Maybe in the first level, falling down could lead to a different path?

 

I'll cosign this. Since Superstars looks like it's going the 3&K/Mania route of having bosses (or some sort of enemy encounter) at the end of every stage, the Sonic CD route of bosses being easier to deal with sounds like a godsend to me. Especially so coming off of Mania, where most of the bosses there turned into waiting games, thanks to reduced windows/opportunities to attack. The boss design for that one was easily for me the weakest element of the game, much more than the reused content. If the goal is to have bosses that are marathon battles (or at the very least, bosses that are more complex to fight), save that for the next time a Sonic game is designed around primarily having just one boss per zone/per world.

Speaking of zones/worlds...

I feel like Sega charging a premium price for Superstars would be a misfire if the game doesn't have a fairly beefy amount of content to go with it. (I say that in discounting people who are willing to pay any price as long as the game itself is great--that works for them but not everybody else.)

Though it's somewhat hard to really measure how many zones would be considered "enough" for a MD Sonic, given certain design philosophies/quirks across each game. Some of which may or may not apply to Superstars. (And given the intent of Superstars trying to bring new things to the table, there's a good chance it could even break certain conventions the MD games haven't really done yet.) The most we do know is that it has the 3&K/M structure of two acts, with an boss at the end of each stage. But there are a lot of other variables in play that do or do not exist in the previous installments.

To name but a few: Consistent number of acts per zone (any one-act stages like Wing Fortress, or "Metropolis" stages with more acts than one would expect). "Alternate" acts/zones that aren't part of the "natural" progression route. (And for that matter, different campaign progression routes that have exclusive zones.) Levels with multiple versions for one layout (when accounting for additional game modes, or certain mechanics changing the nature of the playthrough). Levels with entire routes (not just hidden areas/puzzles) specifically built for a particular character Levels that are strictly boss fights. And so on.

 

I've watched the latest footage. The fact the player was bad actually showcases the game in a clear light. It is clear the game will be good. Probably not amazing but it will be good. And it seems to be imaginative too.

I'm a bit in disbelief to be honest.

 

I hardly pay attention to the prices of Sonic games these days because the last one I bought was Sonic Mania, and back then, Sega had the decency of adjusting their prices according to the realities of different countries. Unfortunately, nowadays they appear to simply charge people in poorer countries the exact same price they do in wealthy countries. Here in Brazil, the US$60 they're charging translates to R$300, which is about 23% of the monthly minimum wage in the country. I particularly can't possibly justify spending this much on a video game, no matter how good it is. It looks like I'll have to skip this one on launch, and wait for a discount later down the road.

 

Yeah, I was arguing that those boosters not only help less able players get around the less conventional loops, but that they'd be useful for exploration in that they go both ways. The person doomposting about it was seemingly livid that the game had boosters and considered this especially egregious. I saw it as considerate and indicative that the designers are welcoming player exploration. TechRaptor called the levels "absolutely gargantuan", so I think that can lend to an enjoyable fold not just for path optimization, but welcoming players from platformers like New Super Mario Brothers where hidden collectables are the usual.

 

I’ve been thinking “what does this game remind me of?” It finally hit me. The Classic Sonic Improvement mod from Generations. Man if Sonic Team got Classic Sonic right on this game it would’ve looked the same as Superstars.

 

The build shown with the debug menu indicated there's around 10 zones, with certain characters getting their own unique acts.

 

Something that has bothered me about classic Sonic stages in previous 3D games like Generations is how the elements of the environment are horribly out of scale with Sonic himself. Everything is absolutely huge, like it was modeled to account for a Sonic twice as tall as they actually made him. It seems as though Ohshima remembers what the old Sonic games actually look like, because I don't see any such wonky scale issues in this game so far. That makes me happy.

This game honestly looks so good. Even if there are gimmicks I don't care for, just having physics and movement this good goes a long way. The level design looks good too.

 

Man I'm excited for this!! This feels like the classic Sonic game I've wanted to see since the classic stages in Generations. Enough classic inspired element to satiate the retro feel while introducing fun, new mechanics that tie into the retro feel. Love that there's some original 2D level design for the first time in ages as well, not just rehashes of old zones.

When I watch this I feel like I did as a kid seeing all the new stuff in Sonic 3 for the first time.

 

With the expanded value of the Emeralds, I like to think that they'd have a lot of Zones beyond the conventional 8 or something close to 10. That way these abilities have room to shine beyond replaying the prior stuff. At a full-fat 60$, I'm hoping that the debug menu isn't representative of the total number of Zones even by way of approximation. 14 would be okay, but when 2 worlds in a Mario game are about the entirety of a classic Sonic game's content, the price becomes far more striking lest there be some notable meat to the package.

 

Precisely this tbh. It was a bit annoying to see him intentionally spindash once but then forget how to do it the next few times there was a big slope, but every time he felt stuck there was an alternate route he could take, and every time he died we got to see how forgiving and intuitive the level design is. Can't get up that halfpipe wall-running thing? No problem, there's a waterfall right here you can take to the top of the stage. Can't get up this slope? No problem, go this way instead. And as worried as I was about the automated gimmicks, when he goes through those curved C-shaped launchers, there are times where he doesn't have much speed going and it launches him kind of pathetically forward, so it looks like you are still rewarded for playing well. Plus there was so much genuine platforming that I honestly think that mechanic will be fun and not overpowering at all.

Also, despite getting frustrated by a pretty easy boss fight, he still said he had fun. That's a positive sign.

That always bothered me! It's hard to put your finger on what feels so wrong, but it's really very glaring. He looks like a tiny little toy figurine running around a giant world. It kind of messes with the pace of the platforming as well and makes enemies a bit too easy to defeat.

 

Not really fair to compare two sets of assets stretched across two worlds in Mario to one unique aesthetic per act (from the looks of it) but yeah I agree just 10 would be a bit underwhelming especially compared to 12 in 3&K which shouldn't be much to expect if not a couple more. On the other hand I wouldn't mind a shorter game if it means they put a lot of attention into replay value.

 

GameSpot hands-on impressions

They liked it.

 

If all 10 zones are great and varied, I don't mind that number. Somewhere around Sonic 2 and S3&K is good for me if all the zones are unique.

 

I sincerely don't think that makes up for it. Laaving aside that the Mario games do actually have aesthetic variation even in the same world, I could point to DKC Tropical Freeze- a game where every stage even in the same world has its elements painstakingly put together in constant variation- and similar titles with that same position and the problem would be the same: the conventional content proposition does not sit nearly within reason for a full 60$ price tag. Even 3D Sonic games have been sold for 10-20$ less than standard box price until Frontiers, and recent 2D games have been 20-40$. While the game looks nice, the content is 100% something I have in mind when the launch MSRP is triple to double that of Mania and a third more than Origins Plus.

 

If we really gotta do the comparisons, you also have to remember that secrets aside, Mario and Donkey Kong Country stages are also very linear platformers and extra paths or secrets are solely for bonus completion items. New Super Mario Bros being an apt comparison, you might have warp pipes and stuff to take you to extra screens and bonus rooms, but all the players don't have to strain the game too much thanks to sharing the same straightforward screen.

Judging by just one of the acts of Sonic Superstars, you're practically topsy-turvy with CD design that actually has level length. Even with 4 players in mind, the character abilities are there that change exploration, the special stages have to be found with that exploration, and there's routes all over the place, from the top to the bottom. If the level design can keep the pace, a single level of Superstars is probably going to be bigger than most levels of an average Mario game outright, and more replayable than the "course design" focus of a central gimmick with a few secret coins/stars hidden about.

That's just kind of what makes a good Classic Sonic game so much more distinct than simply "Sonic speedruns fast", since Mario 1-1 speedruns were what inspired Sonic in the first place.

 

Does anybody know where I can download the highest quality version of the announcement trailer? YouTube quality is not bad, but it would be awesome to see the trailer in the best possible quality.

 

The gulf is just far, far too wide for the layers of pathing to be enough. You can layout the level sprite sheets, and two decent Acts really don't make up for the difference in the face of about 10 levels, a boss, a mid-boss, bonus houses, and secrets accounting in contrast for the little things that classic entries have. And this is without making the point that Sonic Acts having a few layers doesn't change the broader linearity of them as well with regard to progression. Indeed, without good collectables, the additional paths aren't of note for anyone who isn't looking to optimize times, whereas collectables in those other games have more utility and incentive to them to justify replays. At the least, it looks like there might be some of those collectables here, but we can only hope that the use of these things would be like that of the the aforementioned games in giving players entire worlds of extra content to reward the effort. We still don't know how co-op will be handled. Without split-screen, progression will be quite funneled regardless.

SEGA's priced Sonic games very considerately in what seems like clear acknowledgment of the content to dollar value expectation in the market. At full MSRP, there's a lot the game competes against, including Frontiers itself in terms of that metric. I'm hoping it has meat to it, because if it doesn't, I'll be waiting for the bargain bin even if it's well made.