Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

It's not that they "don't count", it's that the differences between those games and Superstars are evident. And yes, the fact that the 2D in those games are a small part of a larger, different whole matters. If we get an actual, full-on DMC/Bayonetta Sonic game, being skeptical because of Frontiers' combat is valid, but it's also not the focus like the former is. It would stand to reason that they would also change the combat for the combat game.

The problems with Forces is that Classic Sonic was literally tacked-on. Superstars is, from ground-up, a 2D game. It is its purpose. And it does not necessarily mean they'll get it right, certainly not. But it means that expectations shift.

How much do you know Sonic Team contributed to Sonic 4? Many of its problems are easily present in Advance and Rush, which are wholly made by Dimps. Sonic Team, or more specifically Takashi Iizuka, contributed to Mania as well, but no one uses that in favor of Superstars. Christian Whitehead might have worked on this game himself!

Why is ONLY the bad ever considered? Why do people only speak up when people are negative about negativity? So many instances of physics that look good, but, oh, boosters exist, Forces has boosters, so this is going to be like Forces, clearly.

The loop having boosters isn't egregious. It is the ONLY time boosters are seen with a loop, and it's a very unique loop that utilizes the background. It is the opposite of egregious. Like it or not it has a point, and you should be definitely like how EVERY OTHER instance considers player input.

 

It's not. To assume that is to assume the worst of people. A lot of people critical / worried would love a good time. A lot of the people excited would also hate a bad time. A game as railroaded as Sonic 4 or Gens/Forces wouldn't be seen as a good time by most people. The signs of that are present and would need to be proven wrong. It's a genuine concern.

Because the arguments made often pretend there's no justification for it. You can't have your positivity while telling the people you disagree with that everything they're saying is unreasonable. Unless you want to be blamed for spreading "toxic positivity". Which I'm not sure you or anyone would want when you're just trying to have fun.

 

I was at the movie theater waiting for the new Spiderverse movie to start when I saw the trailer for this on twitter yesterday. They're really making Sonic 4 Episode III huh

The thing I'm most interested in is the new character designed by Oshima

 

The user mocked people for "trusting the physics" because there's boosters on a loop, which somehow proves the physics would be bad. The "justification" I assume is that games with bad physics had boosters so... having boosters means having bad physics? A weird "causation equal correlation" argument. A "justification" that genuinely doesn't have much ground.

I counter-argued with proof of actual physics in motion, but because I repeated their negative, cynical tone "LiKe ThIs", you called me a jerk. Which I don't have a problem with per se, I was certainly being snippy, but you don't think it's pretty snippy to mock people for thinking the physics we see are good because boosters exist?

And I won't lie, Whitehead giving his seal of approval almost immediately was cathartic, lol. But I have a feeling the "bad physics" accusations won't stop, even after The Only Good Sonic Developer apparently gave his blessings.

 

Same, that and Fang coming back are both intriguing to me. Especially because I contend they haven't come up with a good Sonic character in a very very long time and Oshima's still got it.

 

I caught every reason you did such-and-such as they were happening. I know where you're at on it.

My point was that people aren't your enemy / The Fun Police for seeing what they know as telltale signs that something's off. This isn't an ideology war of Us (people who like to enjoy things) vs Them (people who don't). I'm sure anyone with concerns would love to be proven wrong. I'm just not sure why it requires condescension, especially when there's reason to believe they could still flub the landing, even with good physics.

Let people be skeptical. If the game wants to prove it's better than they fear, let it prove itself. Games shouldn't need a hype machine to sell their worth.

 

Having read the Origins thread yesterday with all the mentions of the rumour of "new 2D Sonic by Sonic Team", it makes the announcement of Superstars a whole lot more funny, at least to me.

I honestly really like the art direction of the game, it looks really nice! The physics seem right, so that's also a plus.

..also yikes, didn't realise you guys post in threads like these in such a rapid pace..

 

Oh, we're talking intentions now? You believe "And you trust the physics?" was a non-rhetorical, good faith question? But I answer it, and I'm a "hype machine", and that's a problem you felt the need to stamp down?

"let it prove itself" What does that even mean? This is an actual question. Is the footage in the trailer showing off the game not the game "proving itself"? And posting that footage makes someone a "hype machine", which games shouldn't need hype to... sell hype? I have no idea what you are talking about. I genuinely do not.

"Let people be skeptical" Let people be positive, considering there's far more reasons to be positive than skeptical about the physics. "No, because you're being a hype machine and you're a jerk because you were condescending this person being condescending to everyone who was even slightly positive"

Skepticism is sacrosanct even when the skepticism is questionable at best and actively contradicted at worst, but any positivity, especially to counter negativity, and you're a corporate hype machine (because being "too" positive is inherently bad). I genuinely wish I can understand how people feel this way.

I'm done.

 

Hi-Res UK trailer added to the archive:
https://xcancel.com/SVAProject/status/1667154588103737344?s=20

 

So anyway, how about those bosses? It seems we are getting boss-only levels again

 

I don't think we can really tell that from the trailer. Several of the bosses in the other games appear to take place isolated levels at a glance when that's not the case in actuality. The bosses we've seen look like simple fun so far anyway. A big Eggman mech that shoots it's explosive mine fists for costal level, and a giant insect that attacks with plasma balls like the S1 final boss. Nothing groundbreaking, but decent enough. Impossible to say anything more though.

 

im loving that direction, i have alot of friends and siblings that would have an easier time keeping up in coop with that sort of pacing, formula, and design. i cant wait!

 

This is awesome. I'm looking forward to playing it, but I'm also curious to know whether our friends behind Mania are involved. I trust them to know how to make a great 2D Sonic game.

 

Showing me trailers I've already seen doesn't negate the fact there are speed boosters on either side of a loop. Question why they're there, because even Sonic 4 didn't do this as far as I recall.


Incidentally Chaotix had a bug right up until the last week or two of development - if you went up two quarter pipe, so were walking on a ceiling, you could stop and not fall down. Crackers enthusiasts will know all about it, as will survivors of Sonic 2006.

Their solution was to design levels in such a way that you'd never see it occur, aka removing a load of half pipes from Botanic Base. Someone eventually worked out how to turn on gravity, but the net result is a game where you're very rarely upside down. We have seen this in Sonic games since time immemorial - they script the loops or remove them entirely, because they don't trust the player not to break things. Normal ramps worked fine!

Combined with the fact they're digging up ten year old assets and using (what I hope are) Switch screenshots to advertise a PS5/Xbox Series X game in 2023, I would suggest they're not bringing their A game to the project.


Also I'm a manly man.

 

Sonic 4 had boosters EVERYWHERE. And I mean, with no exaggeration, EVERYWHERE

Before a loop? Booster. After a loop? Booster. IN a loop? Booster. In a slope? An incline? A STRAIGHT LINE? Baby you know it.

Episode II had better physics but had that infamous section in Oil Desert with a dozen boosters just so Sonic can run on a ceiling.

It is INSANE. A booster on a wide loop is quaint in comparison. It being the only booster when we see so many loops and slopes is refreshing, dare I say, freeing.

 

It wouldn't be a Sonic game PR cycle if we didn't nitpick everything and then get got on each other's cases about said nitpicking.

 

Preaching to the choir my friend, Classic Sonic has always been my guy. I don't particularly like Modern, I think he's silly.

 

I've got no idea what to think of Superstars so far, but thats mostly because its weird territory in general. I'm gonna be the odd duck and say i think the art direction here is kinda hideous, in terms of the stages. the character models are inoffensive. The levels feel dark(?) if you get me. all the front faces of the terrain are really dark and it just looks super off putting, like the jungle in forces. personally i think 4ep2 is the better looking game at the moment. cant comment on music because i think this is just fluff trailer music we are hearing. Good to see fang back, kinda wish he got to share this limelight with bean and bark, but he was a solo act for the majority of his time around, so its understandable. As a fan of both designs, im fascinated to see what this amy alt looks like

 

For those annoyed with the boosters, seeing this has helped reduce my Sonic 4 booster-PTSD:

 

It's worth mentioning that it was an unconventional loop structure. And as shown above, the typical loops look and work just fine, the boosters on the new loop may just be for flow.