You all suck at programming

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by jman2050, Apr 7, 2008.

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  1. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    Yup!

    Wow, you're a prick.
     
  2. Bit-Blade

    Bit-Blade

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    Good topic. I actually started getting that logical thinking thing going in '06, but I stopped because work was getting more intense (blech customer service?).

    The point in reinventing the wheel is to learn how its done. Even if you do it very poorly, it gives you experience and the nudge in the right direction you need to continue farther.

    It's also bad to see the concept of originality poisoning people from doing what they want. Just because 'The Great Things have been done by the Great People" already doesn't mean it wouldn't be a learning experience to try to do it yourself too.

    Which means I should probably start trying to write demos and see what happens, rather than reading up and thinking about it and doing nothing. I've found 68k asm to be more understandable to me than anything else I've tried to do.
     
  3. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Well I kinda agree with both here. If I remember correctly, version 4 was very buggy. But also at least people get to try it every so often. If it's fixed in the end, does the quality of a demo really matter?

    This is not to say that I don't appreciate the bug fixing in hacks such as Megamix and Extended Edition, as those are really fun to play, however the wait is often longer than what I'd like.
     
  4. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    It doesn't matter what you'd like, though—you're not the one putting all of your free time into it with no benefit other than personal bragging rights and having made a quality product. :(
     
  5. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Well of course ultimately it is your decision to release your work when you want. After all it is your work. I'm just saying what I like, which in the long run of things doesn't matter all to much. Doesn't mean I can't say it though.
     
  6. stormislandgal

    stormislandgal

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    Alright... I know most of you probably aren't fans of Game Maker coding/programming... but that's my weapon of choice, and it's loaded at all times. :P

    Seriously though. I'm in the process of making my own RPG using it (cause I want more control over how things are done, which RPGMaker doesn't offer enough of). The entire thing has been coded from scratch; So far, its 25,000+ lines of code, runs at a top speed of 230 fps, and I haven't even begun to work on the battle system, equipment system, items, etc. By the time I'm done with the game, I estimate I'll have 40,000+ lines of code that do the work, 80,000+ lines of ascii text, and about 2,000 for initialization routines when switching to different maps, etc.

    I mean, I'm by no means an expert programmer; Most of the routines I use in GM are preprogrammed (like sound_play(), draw_sprite(), etc). I'm grateful for that much at least, cause if I had to make drawing routines, sound playing routines... I'd probably stop before I even finished the drawing board concepts. But by knowing how to use those routines to my maximum benefit and their maximum potential, I can safely assume that I'm pretty damn good with programming and coding concepts. I can get through a decently sized routine (100-125) lines before I fuck up and need to go back to change something.

    ASM though... god damn it I hate it and I'm never going back. The simplicity of it makes me overthink it to the point of incapacitating myself. I like the complexity of high-level programming because I'm a complex thinker. Simple minded, maybe, but that's another discussion. Even when I'm going through ASM I try to take high level programming tricks (like if then statements) and implement them into the code. However, I find it much simpler by saying "if (dick_size >= 6) { you=man;}" then going through the (un)memorizable branches... ugh, do I use bgt here? or bge? or is it bne... bah. To be honest, bne/beq are the only ones I ever memorized. The others I can remember if I look at them, but not off the top of my head.

    I'd like to strive to be a good programmer such as Stealth or Cinossu, but I know I'll never have the patience. I believe I'm truly capable of anything, I either don't have time (an honest truth) or the patience. I realize programming isn't gonna come second nature in a week, and I'm willing to accept that. The only reason I don't pursue greater programming knowledge than I already have is cause I honestly have no need for it. The programs I make will never become more complicated than finding cos/sin ratios for a circle, unless I get hired by a corporation.

    In short, I can say that I contradict that topic title in some ways, and make it more apparent than fire in a forest in other ways. It's something I can live with, as I'll eventually soar higher than what I am now.

    Though I have to say, I think Jman is the top programmer around here besides Stealth. I've seen the work he's done with Zelda Classic, making various bugfixes, making the script engine easier to work with/vastly superior to it's old counterparts, and overall general ideas that make the program a lot better. If Stealth didn't have such a heavy load of experience under his belt, I'd say Jman is easily the best of all of us, and definitely worthy of bringing this type of topic up.
     
  7. Metal Man88

    Metal Man88

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    I am learning the applicable concepts and structures of languages. Ever wonder why I output nothing despite my command of a language like, say, PHP? It's because I'm waiting until I can correctly know how ASM works from some classes, and then program in it--

    Although I may stick to programming in C++ anyway. :P

    I think, to properly 'program' by the definition of this topic, one would have to reverse-engineer the Sonic games, make flowcharts of every function (and the main program) and then from there, with your god-like (if you did the analysis right) knowledge of the program, do whatever the heck you like. (By altering the flowcharts, then altering the code, using test data, blahblahblahblahblah)

    Though we're rather close to that point already, right?
     
  8. Qjimbo

    Qjimbo

    Your friendly neighbourhood lemming. Oldbie
    I've been in exactly the same situation, however there is a simple solution.
    Comment the code to hell; literally put a comment on every line. It's the only way I can manage it personally.
     
  9. Jayextee

    Jayextee

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    Woah, this post sorta grabbed my attention. Since I feel a little out-of-place here a lot of the time, due to my self-proclaimed fail with ASM, I started to get worried. I'm so glad this was said;

    I started my Sonic hack in the middle part of last year, mainly because I wanted to make a simple set of new levels (Including level art) for Sonic. This was purely everything I wanted to do. And then, there seemed to be something of a trend whereby hacks wouldn't get taken seriously without some form of special ASM features. It's even been said that a hack shouldn't even be considered unless certain things (Spike bug fix, REV01 background effects to name a couple) have been done to it, and yet here I am just wanting to do a simple level set.

    In my position, I found out last October that I'm dyslexic. Not the classic word-blindness or numeracy difficulties, but general orderly thinking. To this end, I don't think I'll ever learn to code properly, because my brain doesn't process thought in a very logical manner. I also found out that the perfect course for me to be taking is Animation, because there's absolutely nothing in it really that would aggravate my shortcomings -- what a lucky accident that was, then.

    Back onto my point;

    And, to expand farther, I'd argue there is a sore lack of original artwork as well, notably for zones. I think, as an addendum to what Jman has said already; ASM for ASM's sake isn't the way to go -- a hack should really focus on the author's particular strengths.

    Hmmm, I wonder if it would be disrespectful of me to suggest a new member title, for the artistically inclined hackers amongst us? :(

    I have implemented some ASM edits to my hack. Mostly due to the feeling of being pressured if there were none. I have removed both the speed cap and the spike bug, with code pasted from this site. However, of my own volition I have made Eggman Monitors work and a snowfall in LZ. Both were merely alterations to existing code, and very simple to do -- I don't call myself a coder, though; I'm still working toward my goal of all-new levels and art, although half the time I don't even know why I should bother because I'll have squat in the way of shiny new features.
     
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