Eh why not. Its literally the only style that hasn't been brought back in the modern era. You may as well.
I feel like the Sonic 4 comparison is applicable when calling 06 "Sonic Adventure 3". We don't like to think about S4 because it wants to pretend to be a classic game but is garishly ugly, plays terribly, is fundamentally broken, and does a terrible disservice to the idea of a new classic Sonic game. 06 I'd say fits all those descriptors, but for the Adventure games. If people say they want a new classic Sonic game and someone says to them "why? Sonic 4 already exists", that'd be seen as unreasonable and in bad faith. This is no different. It should be obvious that when people talk about wanting an SA3, they're thinking of a game that doesn't suck. lol
I liked how much slower Sonic was in SA1, and all the level design that was possible due to it. The game had a lot of cool setpieces and structures and I'd like to see stuff like that again. I even enjoyed the story, for what it was. I thought the art style and music were neat. Everything else? I don't know, I don't really like the other gameplay styles. It's not like it's impossible for them to be done better than they were over 20 years ago but it's just not really the kind of stuff I find interesting in the first place.
This is actually a pretty good summarization on how I feel about it, if the game was SA3 it would’ve been called it, sure it inherits elements of the series but by no means is it such. On the same note it’s why I don’t ever want an SA3 because the elements that made them “adventure” games are something very specific to things like a shonen story, various mini games, blending of genres, and big budget. What people want isn’t adventure 3, we’ve moved past that era of Sonic, what people want is a game that refines the best parts of adventure while leaving behind all that was less desirable. Which, for some reason, Sonic Team abandoned for spin-offs before it could reach its full potential.
Absolutely this. I need to remind everyone on here that when Sonic 4 came out, the overwhelmingly common response by non-Sonic fans was "why don't you like this game it's literally what you weirdos wanted". Jim Sterling infamously reviewed the game and said that in the rudest goddamn way possible. Sonic 4 on the Wii got an 81 on metacritic. That is only four points less than fucking MANIA! The later versions only went down to mid 70's which puts S4 at the same level of Frontiers!!! If you were one of them back then, seeing people absurdly overrate S4 and being bewildered at people going "finally, Sonic fans got what they complained about for a decade" because the game you were looking at was Bad™️, then that is exactly how us Adventure kids feel when people say "but you got SA3" and point to 06.
If I can spindash and jump off of slopes for big air shortcuts, spindash down hills for big speed, and it has a Chao Garden with every bit of depth as SA2B's and then some, then sure, I'll take one Sonic Adventure 3, please. But I genuinely wouldn't think Sonic Team capable of delivering on what I'm asking for here. Shy of some ragtag group of Sonic Adventure-inspired fangame devs building a relationship with Sega, remaking the first two games from the ground up in the process, and then getting "Sonic Adventure Mania" greenlit, I don't see Sonic Adventure 3 "as I truly imagined it" ever happening. re: Sonic 06 talk The difference between Sonic 06 as "Sonic Adventure 3" and Sonic 4 as "Sonic 4" is that one is actually called the thing it's being regarded as. "Do you want a Sonic Adventure 3?" is a valid question to ask, because there exists no official title called "Sonic Adventure 3". Asking "do you want a Sonic the Hedgehog 4?" would not be a valid question to ask in the same manner, because there already exists an official title called "Sonic the Hedgehog 4". That said, Sonic 06 has hub worlds and each story follows a different main character, so in a way, it's the real Sonic Adventure 2.
I think this is right. I was reading a discussion about Frontiers when it was leaking and the bulk of the discussion was about the game's writing, despite this being one of the more innovative Sonic games in terms of gameplay. It's about tone and aesthetic, more than anything else. In that light I get why Unleashed was the only game to ever be deemed by Sega as "Sonic Adventure 3" at one point. It's easy to miss the Adventure titles but when Unleashed was developed, the "Adventure style" was the status quo for almost a decade, with Unleashed being the hip, new ambitious thing.
So... It's been awhile, Frontiers is getting nice updates... ... but It would still be pretty nice to drop an adventure styled game. I still can't believe they didn't remake these titles. I wonder if we will ever see anything close to that formula ever again in a Sonic game.
Because of stuff like this, is it safe to add Frontiers into the whole "We already got Sonic Adventure 3" category of games? https://youtube.com/shorts/mDBgM3elsPU?feature=share
I'll preface by saying that I largely sympathise with your sentiment because I like both Adventure 1 and 2 despite their many flaws. But to be fair, I don't think your analogy is entirely correct. Sonic 2006 was not just disliked because it was badly made but because of the general direction of the game. Many aspects of the game are much closer to the design philosophy of Adventure than any games since Adventure 2. In fact, it built upon the trajectory of Adventure 2 and went even further in that direction. The dark story is only the tip of the iceberg. It had a very large focus on characters outside of Sonic, genre roulette, had very elaborate hub worlds, and a more realistic art style. Just to name four very common criticisms. These weren't issues of the game being poorly designed. People just did not like these design decisions which are synonymous with the Adventure formula. So when people mockingly call Sonic 2006 as 'Sonic Adventure 3' they are talking about the game's design failures rather than just the fact it looks like Sonic Adventure and was poorly made. They see it as representing all the bad conceptual ideas of the Adventure series and failing just as much because of those philosophies as its terrible quality. The parallel to Sonic 4 would be if people criticised the game for being a 2D platformer with cartoony badniks, speed based platforming challenges, and a light story. People didn't like Sonic 4 purely because of its quality rather than its design sensibilities. In fact, the primary reason Sonic 4 got an easy ride with critical reviews was because it was seen as guiding Sonic back to a place of sanity after the missteps of the past, even if it was very clunky in execution. I do actually largely agree with that sentiment which is why I think Sonic 4 was a net positive for the series. It helped guide Sonic back to where it is now, alongside Colors. I know a lot of people disagree with me but, upon balance, I don't think Sonic should be in the design of Adventure and should return back to the design philosophies of the classic games. And Sonic 4, while a very badly made game, was an important step in that direction.
Ugh.... Okay, I don't really like the Adventure games. Especially the first one. And the things that I would change about those games to make them actually good in my eyes would basically result in what I view as a near entirely different game. However, if one would consider the theoretical game I have in my head to still be an Adventure game, then yes. I wouldn't mind a "Sonic Adventure 3." My opinions on what make a good Sonic game haven't really changed at all even a little bit anytime recently. So after cutting out all alternate playstyles entirely because basically all of that stuff was unsalvageable, here's what I'd want them to do.... FLOW - Tone the air drag WAY down. Because especially in the first game, that's really freaking bad, and I hate it, and it kills the flow of momentum, and it got better in the following games but i still want more of it gone because I hate it and yeah. - Maintain momentum through jumping through enemies. - Homing attack chains suck because the homing attack sucks, but as long as the gaps they're being used to cross is in ALL cases able to be traversed with gameplay that requires skill and through which momentum is maintained, sure whatever. - Moves like the somersault and light speed attack need to go. - All waiting based platforming needs to go. - Make the light dash cancellable - Make Sonic less floaty so I don't have to wait for him to descend onto a platform before I can jump to the next. - Never ever do something like the whale chase sequences of Emerald Coast or the rollercoaster of Twinkle Park ever again. - Unlimited and instant restarts from the beginning of level. - I hate hub worlds. Cutscenes and stage transitions like 3K and Mania is enough to sell me on the immersion. What's also beneficial is that they can be skipped. RHYTHM - Again, reduce the air drag in the air so that your momentum can be maintained when performing " run -> slope jump" Yeah, that would make it to where that is something that actually be useful and therefore something you do. - Jumping off downward slopes should give a more notable increase in speed. - Freaking use the air dash in an interesting/challenging way. I can't think of a single time where it is used by the level design in some way that requires particular timing. Like look at 32:22 here, and tell me if the air dash has ever been used in any way like this. It's generally just sort of a "get back up to speed" button and maybe every now and then a jump extender. - I don't know if Sonic needs more gravity/to be less floaty or some sort of stomp mechanic that maintains horizontal momentum or what. But we need something to cut out the air time because frankly Sonic's gameplay isn't that interesting midair. - Remove the ability to spindash while moving, and make the difference between the speed you can get from the spindash and the speed you can get from the environment actually discernible. This is to encourage actually timing jumps off slopes while moving at speeds obtained from the level design rather than standing in place to perform a spindash and then jumping. TENSION - As was mentioned, tone the spindash down. This is something I kind of want applied to Sonic in general. It's not AS bad in the 2D games, because again the environment can actually give you more speed than the spindash can, so when you get crazy amounts of speed there is SOME drive there to kind of maintain it. The 3D games with the spindash don't do this at all. - In a similar vein, we have a "BOUNCE PAD" and dash panel thing to address. - Delete the ranking system off the face of the planet because yeah. That's a stupid way to encourage "better" play. It's unnecessarily punishing. It's not always clear in what it wants you do to. It's not conducive to good pacing because things need to constantly feel tense... ...And getting faster times, or taking optional platforming challenges to get collectables and crap in the levels is enough in my eyes to encourage better play. - You can keep missions though. Like finish with x amount of rings, and maybe just increase that limit and also make the levels a bit larger to where you don't get those limits by just playing. SECRETS AND EXPERIMENTATION - As far as the skips and stuff, the Adventure games, especially Sonic Adventure 1, is actually really good. Keep those levels looping around rather than going straight forward, so that the latter parts of the level can be reached by higher/farther jumps, and you're good. - Add more actually worth exploring for in the levels to provide actual incentive to do so. Ring boxes and lives don't really do it for most people, or at least that's what I think. PLATFORMING - Just a suggestion. But perhaps you can make it to where near all of it can't be skipped with hold action -> jump. Like a little of that every now and then is good. But not 97% of the time. That might be really difficult because of the amount of air control in these game, but as I always say, just be mindful of you're placement of slopes that can be used to reach stupid heights and fly over everything, and maybe make level design a bit more "uphill." All I am saying is that limitations are good, sometimes. For an example of what gameplay feels like without limitations, just play Tails' stage in Windy Valley, and then imagine if every level in every platformer could be beaten that way. - People don't want to add the momentum and weight to jumps found in stuff like SRB2. I guess that's fine. But maybe we can still make platforming call for any degree of precision at all by perhaps calling for precision and maybe asking them to modifying the way they're falling/ascending at specific points mid jump-arc Check out 4:06 here. Doesn't need to be Celeste levels of hard, but do something man. LEVEL GIMMICKS - Uh... Actually have them? I mean Adventure 1 and Heroes are kind of okay about this. SA2's Sonic and Shadow stages aren't. - Also SA2's level design is kind of repetive because of just how many of the same gimmicks are in nearly all of that game's Sonic/Shadow levels. - They should NEVER take you away from the appeal of Sonic's core gameplay for as long as something as Casinopolis' Pinball sections, Heroes pinball levels, the snowboarding in Ice Cap, or so on. I have been saying this the past few days to myself. DO NOT make pinball levels. Make pinball THEMED levels. Don't throw me on a pinball table, because that's annoying, and it's not fun, and it's not what I want to do in Sonic, and these sections kind of make me hate pinball, and yeah. Just let me be in a platforming section, see a flipper or bumper, jump on it real quick and then use that to bounce to another platforming section or higher/farther part of the level. You know like Carnival Night and Casino Night Zone. There's gotta' be SOME way to make that work in 3D. AESTHETIC - Sonic Adventure 1 is the best looking of these titles because you're actually going through the environments.
I think you're failing to account for the fact that different people disliked the game for different reasons. You may be describing why Sonic 06 was disliked by people who also disliked Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, but aren't at all touching on why someone who loved Adventure 1 and 2 might have been dissatisfied with 06. As someone who was in that boat when 06 came out, criticisms of mine that I can remember include the fact that boarding felt like shit compared to SA1/2, gliding felt like shit compared to SA1/2, everyone besides Sonic had their Adventure movesets severely stripped down, and there was no Chao Garden. It was "Sonic Adventure 2, but also it feels terrible to play, movesets are incomplete, and it's missing part of the gameplay loop". Sure, that won't matter to people who don't care about those things because they weren't fans of the Adventure games to begin with, but I don't think they're the people Azookara is alluding to. In that sense, it's absolutely analogous to Sonic 4. As someone who also loves the classic Sonic games, criticisms of Sonic 4 I had when it came out include the Sonic Rush physics, the homing attack and consequences that its presence has on level design, uncurling, holding the jump button down while landing on a badnik or monitor didn't make you return to the height you fell from, no bonus stages in checkpoints, no elemental shields, no additional playable characters, and so on. It was "Sonic 3K, but also it feels terrible to play, roster and moveset are incomplete, and it's missing part of the gameplay loop". Sure, that sure won't matter to people who don't care about these things because they weren't fans of the classic Sonic games to begin with, but again I don't think they're the people Azookara is alluding to.
Sonic Adventure 3 would need to have 1. A Chao Garden 2. A 2P Battle mode with Online that doesn't suck 3. A reason besides ranks to replay levels (Chao, missions, anything. I'll take paths with upgrade items please just give me some variety!!) 4. Funny rapping whenever Knuckles is on screen But this wont happen because 1. If we were going to get Chao they would've made a damn chao gacha game on smart phones already and taken my money. (Seriously why haven't they done this yet) 2. I refuse to believe Sonic Team will ever make an online sonic game. 3. Why have quality levels with exploration and hidden paths when you can push button to make sonic go fast... /s ...actually to be honest, I really liked Frontiers level design, it just needs some tweaks and more freedom of movement. 4. The Rapping with knuckles was ruined ages ago. I apologize for this terrible jokey post. As much as I would love Sonic adventure 3 to exist it would be so out of place and out of touch with today's gaming landscape if it were to come out the way I envision it. That and... I'm too old to really enjoy such a thing: Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 evokes a lot of good memories because it was THE GAME I would come home from school to play with my younger brothers and friends. The Gamecube versions mind you, no one I knew was coming to school talking about the dreamcast. Now I'm in my thirties and I feel like such a thing would get drowned out super easily by Fortnite or whatever other games kids are playing Sonic Frontiers I beat in like a week and I only went back for the achievements. That's it. Once Sonic is Maxed out there's nothing to do except download mods or time attack (or fish lmao) Meanwhile in an alternate universe I'm still in my teens excited to come home and raise chao in between doing homework assignments, with the TV muted of course
I want a game where you can play as Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles (maybe another character or two) individually in a 3D environment with all of their moves from S3&K/Adventure 2. Essentially the gameplay of S3&K in 3D. To me calling a game like that “Sonic Adventure 3” seems natural, but based off of arguments I’ve seen on this forum in the past some people might disagree (to me the Sonic Adventure series = mid-paced 3D platforming, but to others the Sonic Adventure series = “ow the edge” or something), I’ll just say I don’t care what it’s called, I just want a game like I described above.
