Would You Rather A Modern Or Classic Style Game For The 30th Anniversary Game

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MagnusTheGreen, Apr 21, 2021.

  1. Wraith

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    I'm convinced Classic Sonic isn't going anywhere. Sonic Mania and it's subsequent spinoffs/merch only did good things for the brand and a Classic Sonic comic is already confirmed so it's not like they're dropping him cold turkey. Maybe he'll take a few years off but he'll show up again eventually.

    What I am a little concerned about is SEGA being hesitant to greenlight anything that isn't a small-scale title that leverages old assets like Mania. They seem to see Classic Sonic as little else than nostalgic iconography they can exploit. Maybe all the poor feedback they've gotten over the years has convinced them that we wouldn't tolerate anything new, but all the feedback Mania got proves otherwise. The new stuff in the game got the most buzz and just about the only flaw that's commonly agreed on is that there wasn't enough of it.
     
  2. Aerosol

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    Is Iizuka just out of touch? Does anyone know what he actually wants to achieve with the series?
     
  3. Graxer

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    I think the anniversary game should be a new modern style Sonic game, as they are the games that I believe set the identity of Sonic in the eyes of the public (and a big reset is needed in that regard), but by that I don't necessarily mean any gameplay style they have already tried. I personally liked the boost gameplay, but the level design got progressively worse with every game using that style - 360/PS3 Unleashed day stages being the best and Forces stages being absolutely awful, short and uninspired. They should only bring back that gameplay style if they bring back their A-game or better with level design. One thing that I would like to have seen in boost gameplay was different 3D gameplay areas depending on the branches you took in the 2D areas (and vice-versa if they can make branching in the 3D areas work).

    Saying that, I think it would be insane not to do more 16-bit style games in the future, as Mania was pure gold and the highest over-all quality Sonic game since the Dreamcast (given the standards of the Dreamcast era). The closest to an overall good game they have had since then was Generations and that was in 2011. 90s nostalgia gameplay throwback games, if done well like Mania, work for companies and that's why Nintendo have released games like A Link Between Worlds and the New Super Mario Bros series (despite the fact that modern Zelda and Mario series games are highly rated and popular in their own right) and Capcom continues to make new 8-Bit style Megaman games. Classic Sonic in Generations and Forces are not going to be able to scratch that itch as the whole style is too different from the roots.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
  4. I think Iizuka has good intentions; but a combination of poor communication with the fanbase and probably some meddling from Sega has mangled his efforts.

    I doubt anybody at Sega WANT to make bad games...they just have no idea how. Yea, think being out of touch is a good saying.
     
  5. Wraith

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    Personally I don't think he has much control over anything.
     
  6. Overlord

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    Hypothetical scenario:

    A car manufacturer launches a range of swish cars in the 90s that pretty much everyone loves. After a break of 5 years, they put out a new car that's somewhat different to the old ones - the body style has changed, it's now diesel instead of petrol. Over the next decade they keep making more changes that move more away from the cars that sold and were reviewed the best, to a point that in the mid 00s they put out a car so terrible it's still derided 15 years later.

    [​IMG]

    In the wake of this disaster, the execs at the car company go away and have a rethink, and produce a car that, while still having a few problems, is a lot better than the ones they'd made since their 90s-00s gap happened. The 10s arrive, a couple of cars are put out that most agree aren't terrible at all, before making another misstep. Eventually, the execs throw their hands up in the air, give some longtime fans of the company a budget to design a car after they pitched some ideas at the company, and in the meanwhile put out another of their cars themselves.

    The fan designers put out a car that would have fitted perfectly into the 90s-era petrol lineup, is reviewed amazingly well, and sells by the bucketload. The car company's car does OK from a sales standpoint thanks to some cunning deals by marketing, but is largely panned in reviews by Top Gear, What Car? and the like, and they suspect that without said deals things would have got a lot worse.

    Maybe they can't keep coasting on the 90s brand forever - after all, electric engines are coming in now - but surely the 90s lineup is what they should be building their modern lineup from, and not the ones that keep stumbling wildly in quality and reception?
     
  7. Aerosol

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    The problem with this analogy is that there are very vocal fans of the "misstep" cars as well. Not that I disagree with you in principal (despite loving some of those missteps myself!)
     
  8. Overlord

    Overlord

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    Oh, for sure - even a terrible car has its fans. Still won't make it a good car, or a popular one.
     
  9. That's not a good analogy imo, because its implying the mistake was changing to begin with as opposed to the specific changes they made.

    Only one car was specifically bad, not the entire lineup. In fact, the lineup started off pretty popular, even if not as popular as the original lineup.

    You gotta look at what worked from every era, as opposed to just writing everything off that "didn't work". It's the throw the baby out with the bathwater approach and that's not a good mindset.

    Take the things that people liked and build on that. Even that terrible car had some good parts somewhere in it, it was just rushed out for production and not properly planned well.
     
  10. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    I think you'll find that as popular as they might have been, pretty much all 3D Sonic games have been panned, critically. I remember reading a review of Sonic Heroes when it came out that specifically cited issues that had plagued the series since Sonic Adventure as reasons why Heroes was, in summation, "kinda shit".
     
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  11. Blue Spikeball

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    That's arguable. The Dreamcast versions of SA1 and SA2 had great metascores, SA2B and Heroes had decent metascores, and the 3d versions of Colors and Generations had above average.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
  12. Aerosol

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    Yea I was kinda there. Metascores don't really tell the whole story.
     
  13. Blue Spikeball

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    So was I. Of the games I mentioned, SA2B and Heroes had the lowest metascore, and I recall the general reception to them being lukewarm. If memory serves, most reviewers went "it's a flawed game", not "it's terrible".
     
  14. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    I'll give you that. I shouldn't have said "critically panned" when I meant "hardly anyone actually gave a shit about these games outside of the fandom".
     
  15. You have to also consider context too; Battle came out six months after the original with next to no changes whatsoever, and DX is a crappy ass port that came out four years after the original. And admittedly Heroes did get mixed reception.

    So up until roughly SA2B came out, Sonic's 3D reception was good. We can argue all day about the how and why of it, but the first two Adventure games were praised critically upon their initial release, and only reviewed poorly later.

    You can argue that the games dated themselves fairly quickly, but that's hardly unique to Sonic at the time, because 3D platformers were in that weird period.


    But we're moving away from the topic; while I agree the majority of 3D Sonic games have historically reviewed poorly, I don't think that alone is enough to say that there's nothing of value to learn from them.

    Even Mario just paid homage to Sunshine in the Bowser's Fury expansion, and that was the most controversial 3D Mario game ever.

    I just can't jive with the idea that nothing of value came from Sonic's 3D outings when most of the stuff established in them have been staples in the series for years now.
     
  16. Aerosol

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    Never said there's nothing of value to learn from them. Just that Sega doesn't have a great track record of demonstrating that they've learned anything, and a "back to basics" approach may have some merit.
     
  17. Zephyr

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    I'm not even sure they know how to do a "back to basics" approach, either. I feel like more "mainline" games since the 90's have been about Going Back To Sonic's Roots in some vague fluffy way or another than not, but I'd love to be wrong. It feels like it took them 3 games by 3 different studios basically to really nail the Early 90's Nostalgia games.
     
  18. Aerosol

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    Well. "They" didn't really nail it in the end did they? And I'm not sure they were ever trying to in the first place.
     
  19. After Sonic Adventure, they definitely were not interested in "going back to basics", and wanted the series to soldier on into a new direction. But they never really settled on what new direction that was, they just kind of kept throwing different ideas around with vary degrees of success. Then after Unleashed, they just...stopped and didn't even try to push forward anymore.

    To be blunt, the series has just become a zombie after Sonic 3; most of the original guard are long gone, with only one or two of them left. But because the series was profitable, Sega continued to push for more games with no clear direction of where they were going. Focusing heavily on the experimental until they bombed that with 06, and now they're just kind of going by the numbers.

    So with that being said, I can understand the sentiment of "going back to basics". The only issue is that every attempt at doing that has been pretty half-assed and half-hearted, so there's no reason to assume that direction would inherently bare fruit. Which is why I'm hoping this four year hiatus Sega and Sonic team have really just sat down, and truly brainstorm about what they want this series to be. The franchise has had no clear direction or vision arguably since the early 2000's and that needs to stop and I hope Sega realize that they can't continue steering a blind ship as well.

    It's why I'm not really opposed to a full reboot; get some fresh blood into the series, and let them establish their own vision of Sonic. It may not be what any of us want, but hey, I'd welcome someone bringing something new to the table as opposed to the languishing that we've been doing.
     
  20. Zycor

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    Beats me.
    If Mega Man can (could, when was the last X game?) get away with having several series running parallel to each other, I don't see why there can't be a Classic and Modern Sonic set of games.
     
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