Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Agobue, Feb 18, 2020.
Not to be mean, but how can someone who has over 500 posts here get this wrong?
I wonder if that changed sometime during development. It seems weird to me that Naka said that about SA2. I find it to be the best in the series story wise, and even better than SA1. That's just me though.
SA2 is filled with plot holes, is way too edgy, and the final battle is popping boils on a space lizard using a cannon as a dildo.
As head of Sonic Team, I don't think he'd get much done. He might allow for the series to have a little more 'ambition', but with the way Sega's management is, I'm not sure how much good he can do from that position. Now if he and the other OG Sonic Team members came back to make a new Sonic game together, that would be something, maybe.
Gonna have to give a big 'NO' to that one. From what I've read of Archie and IDW, I really hate his writing. His stuff is often waaaaaaay too edgy. Keep him far away from the games.
I can see where you are coming from with the plot holes point. I also have questions with it's story. But too edgy? I respect your opinion if you felt that way. I really do, but I never felt that way at all about the story of SA2.
I felt it had a great blend of lighthearted cheesiness with a mixture of dark serious moments. I mean the opening on the Hero side has Sonic jumping out of a GUN helicopter saying some pretty cheesy lines with his own theme song playing.
Ironic that you say this, while also shill for Flynn to write the games. SA2 wasn't really all that edgy until the Last Story, imo. It's mostly pretty campy B-Action Sci-Fi movie schlock with some shounen anime tropes thrown in. No matter how much people here hate SA2, I'd still take its story over Colors, Lost World, Forces, Archie Sonic, and IDW Sonic.
That's exactly what I think SA2 is story wise. It's why I love it so much. It feels very Shounen Anime like. And Shounen tend to mix being lighthearted and dark and serious.
Yeah, for me Sonic Adventure 2's plot is pretty much the ideal Sonic story, serious yet lighthearted when it needs to be. But I think it had much more to do with Shiro Maekawa than Yuji Naka.
Some of the famous "plot holes" in Shadow's backstory are explained in complimentary material and official sources, or are outright brought up by them and treated as mysteries, showing that the writers knew about them. I get the impression many of these "holes" were intentionally left unexplained in the game in order to keep the backstory mysterious and make fans discuss and speculate.
Well, that, and the fact that a number of scenes and dialogue had to be cut from SA2
Idk, just some of the things in SA2 rubbed me the wrong way. Particularly Eggman's characterization. Idk how to describe the distinction but he felt like less of a villain and more of a terrorist. He blew up an island, blew up part of the moon, held a gun at Amy's head. Like fucking what? And then Shadow's whole thing is just stupid. Yes, Maria, a seemingly kind hearted girl wants Shadow to destroy the world as her final wish... oh ok. Then Shadow says like "you've freed me master I will grant you one wish." WTF does that mean, is Shadow a genie now? And that plot point is dropped in 2 seconds. Then there's the whole middle part of each story involving Tails and Sonic finding the president and for some reason Tails has to drive to find him but he's flying his plane randomly in the Dark story where Shadow goes "in pursuit" of them and then some shit happens, I can't even describe that section of the game properly. And like Eggman, Shadow, and Rouge seemingly have a teleporter to get up to the ARK but Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles have to steal a rocket that Eggman has for seemingly no reason?
Thinking about this made my head hurt lol. Anyway I thought Flynn does a good job mixing light hearted and serious. Like the Fighters arc from the Archie series was great IMO. It mixed so many elements together in a way that made a good, coherent story. And one thing Flynn does well that the current and former writers don't is that he can at least create a cohesive world. All the modern Sonic games seem to just go from one disconnected story/world to the next.
Well to be fair Eggman wasn't suppose to be seen as a mega villain in SA2 compared to any game prior. It's the first game he's playable in, and honestly makes sense that he does things on a smaller scale thanks to GUN being the new robot threat for the playable protagonist. Also it was implied that Gerald reprogrammed Shadow to act the way he did prior to the last story. The "One wish" line was a mistranslation error. I don't think he says that to Eggman in Japanese.
Why do people always get hung up on the "I will grant you one wish" part? Shadow is very theatrical in his villainy, especially early in the game. He's clearly using it as a flowery way to say "I will do any one favor I am able to". He's not LITERALLY saying he can grant a wish.
@Sid Starkiller while the line is dumb my main hangup is that Shadow's not really granting any wishes or favors. He's kinda just doing what he wanted to do and it just so happens that it lines up with what Eggman wants. What if someone else freed Shadow and asked him like "Oh can you be my friend?" Then what lol
You know if SA2 was remade maybe I'd give it another chance plot wise, but as it is ooofff it's painful and confusing. That may be one of the most poorly translated games I've ever played from the sound of it.
Also gotta love the Keyboard Eggman types on at the beginning. Only 3 clicks to spell "Maria" I get why, but it's still funny. "MA-RI-A" Yes these are keys on a standard keyboard
I can see where you are coming from. I will just say that I know the story of SA2 isn't perfect. Far from it in fact. It definitely has it's problems, and I'm aware of them. That said for a Sonic game story? I feel as if it's the best the series has gotten in terms of story game wise, and can be pretty entertaining for me to watch out of all the Sonic games. And even Sonic as a whole aside from Sonic OVA. That has to be the most entertaining story for Sonic in general for me. Lol.
I feel the same, except with SA1 instead of SA2. While SA2's tone is still ideal, the plot is waay too "grounded", if that makes any sense. If I were head writer, I'd streamline the story a whole bunch (re: remove GUN entirely).
Shadow was just trying to tempt Eggman. As we see later on, Shadow convinced Eggman to gather the Emeralds and feed them to the Eclipse Cannon by telling him that he would be able to use this one to take over the world.
In other words, he meant that he would grant him any wish he wanted by handing him the power to conquer the world. If you have control over the world, you basically can have anything you want. In the Japanese script, he didn't say "one wish"; he said "your wish" or "your wishes" (Japanese doesn't distinguish between singular and plural).
Agreed with bolded. I felt SA1 had the right mix of adventure, seriousness and comedy.
As dumb as GUN is the story doesn't work well without it. Who else would serve as enemy fodder in the Dark story for example? But I overall agree, I like SA1's story better for the same reasons. It's a nice balance between the Classic and Modern world.
OBVIOUSLY BRING BACK THE DEADLY SIX IN A GAME MADE BEFORE THEIR OWN CREATION AND HAVE THEM CONTROL EGGMAN'S ARMY
SA1's Story always felt...off to me. Way too...all over the place. Since it has 6 playable characters, that meant it had 6 stories, making the story feel like it lacks focus. Especially when you take the Tikal flashback sections into account. SA2 Just had 2 stories making it feel like it has focus.
I don't know. That's just how I see it.
To me it felt more like trying to recruit Eggman as a pawn in his scheme. He figures anyone who would infiltrate a military base to obtain a "top secret weapon" has evil ambitions, and might make a good tool for Shadow's own evil ambitions.
And yes, the keyboard thing was ridiculous. And at the time, I had no idea why they did it like that, so it was even worse.
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