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Would Knuckles Chaotix play better as a solo game?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by JcFerggy, Mar 11, 2017.

  1. JcFerggy


    Do you want to taco 'bout it? Member
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    GoldenEye: Source, Other Stuff
    I'm just laying here thinking about Knuckles Chaotix after just having watched a video about it. Would it be better if it played more like Sonic 3K?

    Like imagine running free, but having a button that when pressed activated the combusting, instantly spawning your partner at your current location, and pressing it again removed the ring. I think the spin dash would have to be beefed up and made similar to earlier Sonic games. I think all characters have the ability to climb or gain altitude, as well as being able to use the combusting at will to platform or get items.

    I'm not requesting someone to do this, I'm just trying to make an open dialogue on, if the cobiering was more optional and was more a gimmick instead of a core gameplay mechanic, would have it have been better. We could have had actual loops.

    I hope this an OK think to post about..
  2. Beltway


    The most grateful Sonic fan of all time this week Member
    Sega of Darkest Peru
    Artwork and classes
    Knuckles Chaotix would be better if it was designed more like Sonic 3&K, not just played more like Sonic 3&K. The rubber band co-op mechanic (unsuccessfully, IMO) hides the fact that Chaotix is a very bland, barebones co-op game with cosmetic (albeit very good) Sonic visuals and music.
  3. Atendega


    Lesser Sea Sponge Member
    Comfy couch
    Collecting insults
    I've never had the patience to get very far past the first level of Chaotix. Not because of the tether mechanic, but because of the awful level design. It's a flaming wreck of monotonous garbage.
  4. Felik


    Chaotix lacks in programming department. Graphics and music are great. No complain there.
    But as a game it lacks polish and creativity.
  5. I personally doubt that it would particularly be better as a solo game. The game's level design is designed around the tether mechanic, so it is consequently more vertical compared to the other Sonic games in order to take advantage of it. Not many people realize how well the mechanic allows the characters to reach high speeds quickly or launch themselves far in the air. Knuckles' Chaotix would benefit more from better set pieces for the laters levels of a couple of the attractions.
  6. Herm the Germ

    Herm the Germ

    Hmm, not bad. Well done, doctor! Member
    Dresden, Saxony, Germany
    MIDI-to-SMPS-conversions, mostly. Takin' requests, too.
    Am I honestly the only person around to have had fun with Chaotix just the way it is?
  7. I also think it would be pretty dull, mainly because of the monotonous level design...

    But would be interesting to see a single player hack for sure
  8. I had fun with playing the game. I thought that the level design was good for the most part, considering the tether mechanic that the game has.
  9. You're not the only one. Sure, it has many flaws (like the level design), but for some reason I replay this game sometimes. A "love it or hate it" game, they said.

    As a fun fact: I play Sonic Classic Heroes with my friends mostly with Chaotix coop (Ring Power) just because it brings occasionally so much funny moments and it's... more cooperative :)
  10. ICEknight


    Researcher Researcher
    It would play better as a solo game only if you get rid of the compromises and level design quirks that had to be made to make the rubberband mechanic more enjoyable and less frustrating.
  11. For a long time I've wanted a hack that removed the hub to make the game linear, removed the combi-ring, (but leave it in as an option to turn on) and reduces each zone from five acts to three (EDIT: Or four, to keep all the great palettes) so they aren't as monotonous. Basically make it feel more like a regular Sonic game. Also, make the final boss a lot more fun and climactic, and nerf Charmy by giving him limited dashes. (Three maybe?)
  12. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Working on my art!
    Anyone want to back port the levels to a better playing Sonic game?

    I guess the color palette would be an issue. Personally I always felt chaotix was an off looking game and too colorful and blurry. Like someone jizzed in your eye and you looked into a kaleidoscope.

    Love that hub world theme though, think of it every sunrise

    I hate that it's HUD was used constantly in fangames though.
  13. SonicGenesis89


    Cool! Sweet! And Catchy! Member
    Green Hill Zone
    Collecting Sonic Manga
    I actually like this game despite it's flaws and I too tend to play it from time to time. It has really nice art, graphics, and music so it's kind of a shame that it's not on the same level as the other classic Sonic games. I would actually really love to try out a hack of Chaotix where you can play as one player. It would be interesting to see how the game is when playing with only one character and without the tether gameplay mechanics and gimmicks. Another hack I always wanted to play for Knuckles Chaotix was to put Tails back into the game somehow. Like maybe replace Charmy with Tails? It would be pretty awesome if someone added Tails into the Sonic in Chaotix hack so you can play as Sonic and Tails as partners in Knuckles Chaotix stages. I always wanted that.
  14. XCubed


    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    Played it in Gens in 2004, prayed to and thanked the savestate gods, got all the Chaos rings to get the good ending, and never looked back since. The blandest, most colorful piece of shit I've ever seen. It's no wonder the 32X bombed. Parents and children got ripped off to high hell back in 1995. But that music though......
  15. Drex


    Lazy perfectionist Member
    Yeah, this was pretty much my experience too accept I actually got my parents to buy the 32x and the game for me after months of begging. Terribly Bland and oversaturated game.

    If I ever had actually gotten into ROM hacking or even making fan games, the first thing I would have done is to recreate the Chaotix and Sonic Clackers levels with fewer acts and a more standard level design.
  16. Covarr


    Sentient Cash Register Member
    Trapped in my own thoughts.
    Two stageplays, a screenplay, and an album
    Man, I didn't even like the art. Everything was too plasticine, with those awful white shines everywhere.

    But yeah, even with the partner mechanic removed, this game simply doesn't have much to offer. A platformer lives or dies by its physics and level design, and the level design here is frustratingly dull, empty, and repetitive. The level design is so focused on showing off that tether mechanic that it frequently fails to be engaging in its own right and ultimately comes across as a very polished tech demo. The best content is near the end of the game, but the early content is so boring that I rarely want to play far enough to start enjoying it.

    If you want to fix this game, there's two things that need to be changed:

    1. The levels are too vertical. I can get making them more vertical than other Sonic games, but I feel they've gone too far. Too much of the game is climbing, which gets tedious.
    2. More obstacles. Whether enemies or setpiece gimmicks, there simply aren't enough things impeding your path throughout the game, either in variety or density. Far too much of the game is simply navigating ordinary level design, platforms, quarter pipes, etc., which can get repetitive if there aren't enough other challenges to overcome between them.

    Put another way, I think the tether mechanic would be far more fun in Sonic 3 than it is here, because the tether mechanic really isn't the problem with this game in the first place, except insofar as the developers put it too front and center to the detriment of interesting level design.
  17. MartiusR


    I know for sure, that such change would definitelly convince me to play in Knuckles Chaotix more than a couple of minutes. I would compare (playing in KC with constantly "chained" characters) it to playing in any platform game and catching at the beginning some major debuff, which you can't get rid of through entire game. I know that it's a bit unfair to judge the game with only a couple of minuts of gameplay, but I couldn't stand it and eventually give up.
  18. If the tether mechanic were to be placed in more horizontal levels, then there would need to be more walls to prevent people from breaking the levels. However, in that instance, there would potentially be much less space to use the tether mechanic to its fullest extent. i also get the feeling that if more enemies were placed in the levels, then people would begin to complain about being hit by them too often and accuse this as being bad design or fake difficulty, regardless of whether or not that is actually the case.

    Besides, I get the feeling that few people actually know how to use the tether mechanic well. The majority of the playthroughs of the game that you can find on Youtube have people struggling to control their inertia effectively. This is partially the game's fault, though, since its tutorial isn't very specific about how to do that; instead, it only teaches a handful of techniques that can be applied. Once you know how to use the mechanic correctly, then you'll find that you don't need to rely so much on climbing walls in order to reach the higher paths and you'll be able to go through the levels more quickly.
  19. Covarr


    Sentient Cash Register Member
    Trapped in my own thoughts.
    Two stageplays, a screenplay, and an album
    I didn't mean climbing literally as in Knuckles' climb ability. I meant it as in ascending. So much of the game is about going higher and higher, and it's just not terribly interesting to actually do. Even if you maintain your momentum, this game just feels content-sparse, like they couldn't think of a variety of ideas to keep the player busy so they gave us a few challenges repeated constantly.
  20. Oh. That's understandable. I do wish that there were more set pieces to distinguish the different levels of each attraction from each other. However, I don't think that having a more vertical level design is itself worse. Of the five attractions, I like the level designs of Botanic Base, Marina Madness, and Amazing Arena the most. Techno Tower and Speed Slider need more to distinguish the early levels from each other, in my opinion.

    Related to that, I wish that the day-night cycle played more of a part in the game. It's not immediately noticeable, but there are some small differences in the ways that the different attractions affected by it. There are doors in Botanic Base that open only in certain times of day, the one-way barriers in some levels of Speed Slider change position, the bosses of Marina Madness and Techno Tower have their attack patterns change, and the optional sub-boss in the different levels of Amazing Arena takes a different amount of hits depending on the time of day. However, it's overall not utilized well enough to make much of a difference.