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Why is SatAM often considered the best Sonic cartoon?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Lava-Snarl, Jun 19, 2010.

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  1. iojnekns

    iojnekns

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    I'd just like to say that I really enjoyed this post ^
     
  2. Comic book generalities aside, what was so bad about the comics compared to the show?

    Yeah, his manner of speech is pretty funny now, but I thought he was pretty creepy as a kid. One of the things that bugged me the most about SatAM and early Archie though was how they redesigned him. It's as if they hadn't even seen the original game illustrations and were just shown the goofier AoStH Robotnik and told to make him scarier.

    To be fair, Tails' mechanical abilities hadn't been established yet in the games, as the only thing that would indicate it at the time was his piloting the Tornado. I do agree that his role overall was seriously diminished.

    The British comics also had a character named Sally who looked like Ricky with a pink bow.

    Anyway, as for my thoughts on SatAM, I was pretty young when it first aired in '93, and I didn't like it as much as AoStH. I never really warmed up to it either like some in this thread. I found the dark, gritty atmosphere, contrasted greatly with the bright, whimsical levels of the games themselves. The SatAM story line was good on it's own merits, but to be honest, many times it seemed like the writers and artists (many character designs and locations just didn't seem to fit the Sonic aesthetic) didn't really seem to care about the games and were only using the character of Sonic as a vehicle for their own, unrelated ideas. Looking back, it just seems to me that they took far too many liberties with the Sonic property. I know you may be thinking that I am nit-picking and that the adaptation was only going on what little information was available at the time. As a point of comparison, I think that the British Fleetway publication Sonic the Comic, in it's early years of existence was a much more faithful adaptation than SatAM and Archie's. The characters were well established and the artwork was far more consistent and in-line with that of the games than Archie's. The basic plotline was similar to SatAM's, but with a lighter atmosphere, and the original character designs were also closer to the games. I haven't read much of the Fleetway comic, so I can't say if it's better overall, just a more faithful adaptation.

    As for AoStH, I still prefer it to SatAM even though it was blatantly derivative of Loony Toons and was relatively cheap and unpolished. It kept things simple and focused on Sonic's personality and abilities in a lighthearted way that didn't stray from the overall "spirit" of the games. Although I like the OVA best of all the adaptations I didn't see that until years later, so AoStH was always my favorite as a kid.
     
  3. Overlord

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    SatAM was terrible.


    I'm no doubt going to get a 55 paragraph entry on why I'm supposedly wrong by Knothole Resident or someone but I'm sorry - it was. I was watching AoStH and SatAM in their aired primes in the early 90s and SatAM just did not gel with the Sonic I knew from elsewhere - it was too damn dark. Where was Tails? Certainly not in the vast majority of the episodes. Who are these other characters that are around Sonic? They aren't in any of my games. Hell, they're not even in the comic I'm reading (StC, before you all start with the ARCHIE AM VICTORIOUS stuff, is still the better comic of the two in hindsight, imo - and for what it's worth, I didn't see any Archie issues until about 2002/2003 so my point about not knowing the cast stands), nor any of my Sonic novels. What is with the broody doomsday shit? This isn't shown in any other Sonic media.

    In essence, my problem with the show - it's nothing like the games. It's a generic Saturday morning TV show - and imo, not a particularly good one - that had a few Sonic characters slapped in and a whole new cast dreamt up to fill the gaps in the writer's idea.


    AoStH on the other hand, always gelled well with me. It's Sonic, Tails, and Robotnik, every episode, just like the games. There are badniks from the games too; in Scratch, Grounder and Coconuts. They visit zones (Casino Night for example featured in the gambling sheep episode). There was even a mini-arc with the Chaos Emeralds (albeit in a changed form). The closest SatAM got to any of this was showing a ring every now and again as a power-up plot device. And I could actually watch this show and enjoy it - it's still a fun watch today, whereas at a guess I'd say that despite having had the boxset for a couple of years at this point, I've still not managed to bring myself to watch every SatAM episode.




    As for the others: Underground wasn't that bad provided you hit the mute button during the obligatory song in every episode. The bungling sidekick henchmen of Robotnik were very Scratch & Grounder-esque, and it was nice to see Knuckles on the TV.

    Sonic X? I actually like it a lot, it's my second favourite after AoStH (though dear GOD don't watch the US dub of it. The cuts and changes coupled with the decidedly dodgy voice cast (some, like Robotnik, working very well, some like Cream being TERRIBLE) and the needless score changing ruins the show). And again, it's fairly faithful to the games, albiet this time the modern ones (see a pattern emerging here?).




    And as mentioned above, in before someone tears this apart and spells out why they believe Sonic in the future timeline from The Terminator movies is "better".
     
  4. Mercury

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    Won't this stupid fallacy ever die?

    :argh:

    After a certain point, the new characters, story-arcs, and drawing styles jumped every shark and nuked every fridge they could find. Once it turned into "LOL lets jam in every new Sega plot with Mammoth Mogul really behind it" with hideous stretchy octopus-headed Sonic, it lost me. And when it rebooted to go "back to the basics" again, it felt too much like modern Sonic to interest me (new Eggman design, etc).

    I will say that Spaz's cover art has always been good, though.
     
  5. Adventures of Sonic was a show I gradually got into, but even at age 12, I didn't initially like it. I thought it was retarded and kiddy, and I guess when you're in Jr High, you're, at the age where you're trying to act mature and prove to your peers that you moved on from elementary shows which Aosth is obviously targeted to. Like I mentioned, SatAM was my gateway into the Sonic franchise cause its overall plot is what drew my interest. Plus alot of people at my school were fans of it and was the topic of monday's lunch period. Kids would talk about the shows they watched over the weekend and SatAM was always included. So maybe it had it something to do with my town or circle of friends I had at the time, but I can vouch that SatAM was always discussed in a positive manner. Of course back then, it was just refereed to the ABC version of Sonic to avoid the confusion of Adventures which was a weekday show. Now I gave Aosth another shot while watching SatAM and I ended up enjoying it for the comedic aspects. In fact, I adapted a regiment of recording the episodes everyday using a timer on my VCR so I can watch them after school. I can appreciate the two shows on their own merit, but I guess I've always been the type that enjoys a dark brooding story that takes place in a dystopian world. If SatAM didnt exist, I wouldn't have been a fan of Sonic at all.
     
  6. Phos

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    This makes me proud that removed the concept mobius link from the Sonic the Hedgehog Wikipedia page. Also, the guy who runs that site is an internet tough guy who fancies himself a genius and believes that every word he writes should be clung to like oil to a pelican (lol topical). I indirectly caused him to be banned from SSMB because I wouldn't roll over and accept what he said as fact. Make no mistake, he got himself banned.

    Funny story about "Planet Mobius", way back in the day my mom posited that the name was based on Möbius syndrome, which is characterized by an inability to move one's face, which prevents you from being able to express emotions. I find this both ironic and fitting, because this show can't seem to keep its character's facial structures straight (Remember how no one seems to be able to make a good 3D model of Sally? It's because her face is constantly changing), and because this syndrome makes you look retarded.
     
  7. Robochao

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    I'm gonna go on and pour salt in the wounds of Sonic fandom. From the beginning I always thought that AOSTH was the truest to Sonic because he was a cartoony character and it just seemed so down to Earth with the game. But easily any other person could come and say that SatAM is the best show because it's keeping the seriousness that the games had.

    The games are actually serious in a weird quiet sorta way and AOSTH doesn't reflect it that much. AOSTH is an opening to how someone could look at the Sonic franchise. I don't like SatAM because of those throwaway characters, and I don't even like to think about the comic book.

    I have no idea why. I can't understand this because I don't enjoy it. How do you like SatAM?
     
  8. E-122-Psi

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    The sad thing is, most of the complaints issued towards SatAm can be said for many current alt medias and even some of the recent games, mainstream characters warped or undeveloped; check, pretentious 'dark' storyline; check, Sonic taking side stage for overglofied new characters; double check. I actually thank heavens that SatAm handled the 'dark' tone better than most other representations, ie. in a fantasy manner that is still somewhat whimsical, rather than 'government conspiracies and gunned down best friends' that belong more in a blockbuster thriller, not one clitched stoic anime anti-hero in sight either.

    About StC, it started off with a pretty good concept, the whole setup was pretty good with a rare Eggman styled Robotnik and games style locations with the small animals as civilians. Then it took the same 'dark' road as Archie. Granted the early stories were unbearably corny, but similar to it's US counterpart, the writers seemed to be less and less interested in the Sonic element of the comic and seemed to be making it more into a Marvel/DC style sci-fi, even the animals were basically photo realistic humans with wet noses. Not to mention some of the stories and characters were kinda oddball. Compared to some of StC's deranged stuff, SatAm actually felt more Sonic-y.

    Oh, and STC Sally appeared in all of the first twenty issues, mostly as an interchangable extra, the rabbit Johnny and pig Porker appeared as main characters but gained the same anthro treatment Sally and Bunnie got in Archie and looked like creepy humanoids with a cartoon animal head stuck on. Oh and Johnny was so horribly bland in character even the writers felt the need to kill him off.
     
  9. I've never got everyones hate of AoStH.

    It's a slapstick comedy that's not supposed to have much continuity and not be taken seriously. It's no different from most Warner Bros cartoons or Tom & Jerry in terms of style. It's one of the more better modern slapsticks in my opinion.
     
  10. E-122-Psi

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    I think AoSth was good at times, being a fan of Looney Tunes, as well as perhaps giving the best development between Sonic and Tails than any other continuity (which also gave the show a touch of sentimentality and heart to balance it's zaniness). It's just it drifted often between humorous and fun to corny and outright strange, half the episodes are enjoyable, the others make me cringe, then again I can say the same about pretty much all of the other Sonic shows, even SatAm has a fair few episodes I can't stand.

    That said Robotnik and his goons were definately a big plus in the show and usually helped rise up a 'dud' episode, they were certainly a rare example of corniness done humorous and well. Sonic and Tails meanwhile were developed and 'human' enough to endear to and not oversympathise with the bad guys, a rare case where both the villains and heroes are developed evenly and can both be rooted for (SatAm and Sonic X really seemed to lean to either extremes with it's two rather different variants of Eggman and Sonic).

    Oh, also an avid Dr Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine fan.
     
  11. saxman

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    I liked the darkness that SatAM had. It had that serious, suspensful feeling when you watched it. You were always wondering what was going to happen next. With AoStH, I never wondered what was about to happen. I guess that's what makes SatAM good for me.
     
  12. 0r4ng3

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    Where's the original article of Naka's interview in japanese? There isn't one really? He says Mobius world or Mobius worlds as it's depicted in that link? Because if it is worlds, than it's still a misunderstanding, right? He might have confused terms as well.
     
  13. Yash

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    I think you're supposed to take SatAM not as a Sonic cartoon, but a cartoon with Sonic in it.

    For a long time it seemed like fans of SatAM and fans of the games were mostly polarized from each other. I liked both, but not for the same reasons as one another.
     
  14. Mercury

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    I believe the subject is exhaustively explored at the link (reasons why he might have/might not have said Mobius, why the word "worlds" was used, etc). Yes, it's still technically possible Yuji or the translator made a mistake and he was referring to the corkscrews, but it's the least parsimonious of all explanations. And it still wouldn't mean that that's how the planet was named, because it's not.
     
  15. DigitalDuck

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    While I know that's not how it came to be called Mobius, I have to point out this:

    No they weren't. Not even close. Running along a Mobius strip would be similar to running around a loop, except at some point during the loop you'd move from the inside to the outside via a half-corkscrew turn. The corkscrew roadways in Emerald Hill Zone are corkscrews.
     
  16. 0r4ng3

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    Why is it the least likely? The guy is japanese, maybe he misused the word because he heard it often. Or truly didn't know that corkscrews aren't mobius strips. I've seen a lot of people saying the corkscrew is a Mobius strip, which is embarassing but it still happens. Or the interviewer is stupid and thought the world was prettier or tried to add his flair with a west canon word. Mostly I agree that that it might be refering to zones (not the planet itself), which is still stupid, but at least makes sense because of the word worlds. Still, I can't help but think it was a misunderstanding.
     
  17. Mercury

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    The reason why it is the least parsimonious is because the planet was already named Mobius at the time. Explaining the use of the word Mobius with the concept of a misunderstanding requires an extra unsupportable assumption when the use of the world can be easily explained without it. Occam's Razor 101. :eng101:
     
  18. trakker

    trakker

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    I think Sonic X is better than satam, but only the season 3, (and selected season 1-2 eps) in JP or French, untampered with.

    I never really held Satam in high reguard, I mean I own it, but id rather sit and watch AOSTH or Sonic X, its was almost a chore to watch, wasent very enguaging untill the last couple of episodes :/

    Thats probably why its held in reguard more, they had an epic , memorable couple of last epiosdes that left you wanting more, then they just cut it off. and then fanfiction.net was created. lol

    but overall, Sonic OVA all the way
     
  19. FinalBeyond

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    I've always disliked SatAM. Mainly because I had something far more accurate to the games in the Fleetway comics, and even back then, I wasn't a fan of making things gritty by turning them brown and dull. Gone were the beautiful, surreal landscapes of the games, replaced by a forest and a drab metal city. Gone was the comedic Doctor Robotnik/Eggman, replaced by a redesigned version of either a Bond villain or the Claw from Inspector Gadget, complete with a generic pet to stroke.

    As its own cartoon, it was technically very good, even if the plots were paper thin, and usually resolved by a big old deus ex machina in the final minute. But it wasn't Sonic, to me. I preferred AOSTH, as while it still wasn't on a par with Fleetway, it did at least have surreal landscapes, callbacks to the games, and a sense of fun.
     
  20. roxahris

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    I, for one, completely agree with this notion.

    As most people would refer to the OVA as a cartoon, I'd say that the only people thinking the other cartoons are better either have not watched it, or are blinded by nostalgia.
    This is coming from someone who has not, so to speak, actually sat down and watched all of AoSTH or SatAM or even Sonic X. With that said, however, I must duly note that what I have saw was hardly anything to write home about - in a manner of speaking.
     
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