Why I Don't Like Sonic Games

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by The Negative Ion, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    Amazingly enough, one can make a video for multiple purposes. It probably wasn't especially for us.

    Signing up to a forum isn't exactly an arduous task, not even this one.
     
  2. Laura

    Laura

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    Yeah sure, let's just assume that someone who doesn't like Classic Sonic and wants to discuss their opinions with fans must be trolling!

    I watched the video and pretty much agreed with Josh, it was good! Don't agree with it but it was mostly well done.

    This isn't someone making absurd claims or making blatantly ridiculous claims. Stop being such fanboys.
     
  3. RDNexus

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    I haven't seen the video, but what the OP had written was more than enough.
    As a kid, I was a great fan of stuff like Sonic, Dragon Ball and such. But with time, and with the way things have been going overall, I no longer feel hyped over a Sonic game, even DBSuper felt childish and needless to exist.
    As much as it pains me sometimes, as we grow up, we come to enjoy things (or not) without feeling like our lives depend on them, it's a sense of disconnection that many warned me before and I've been feeling it now.
    I still follow Sonic, I still can kinda enjoy it, but the feelings I had towards the franchise at the time of SA1&2 and 06, even the Classics, are far from what they once were. And that's why I can kinda relate with the OP.

    Still, for him to come to this forum and have his first (and apparently only) post be about this seems kinda odd and very clickbait-y, to say the least. It's like he did it on purpose to have people here see the thread and the video and go watch it, for some reason or another. I don't take it as a troll, but it's strange nonetheless.
     
  4. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

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    To go back to what you said a few posts ago
    Regular is the important word here. If someone like Overlord, or any other user that has been here for a while made a topic like this, we'd be much more inclined to listen and discuss their arguments.
    But this dude came outta nowhere. It's his first post on the forum, and he used it to create a topic that basically says "I don't like sonic please watch this 50 minutes video from my youtube channel k thanks bye"
    Of course we're making fun of him. I don't even think he's a troll, he basically just wanted some quick views for his new video. I doubt he'll ever post here again.
     
  5. Laura

    Laura

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    I think you're all paranoid. He obviously created the thread and his account to promote his video, which is really no different to the other times people have done this before with fangames and other video projects. I've seen it before, it's not unheard of.

    He hasn't responded to us yet but then the post is only a day old...

    If this was a video praising Sonic, no one would bat an eyelid. People are only losing their minds about this because he's criticising Classic Sonic.
     
  6. steveswede

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    Have you watched the video Laura because it's partially satirical and mocks the fan community with playful banter to be entertaining. If you do something like that then you should expect some banter in return. Don't be so serious about it and besides, his post and video has kinda rekindled these forums a bit. :P
     
  7. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

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    That's where I think you're wrong. I'm pretty sure no one care that he's criticizing classic sonic. In fact, I'm sure there would've been even less discussion and even more shitposts if the video was praising classic sonic instead, but who knows :v:
     
  8. Palas

    Palas

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    I hve only one question.

    Why would you think things that are intrinsic parts of a game would have nothing to do with "actually playing" the game? What does it mean to "actually play" the game, if not to... play it, whole package included?
     
  9. Laura

    Laura

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    Another inspiring post by Palas! I hope you stay around :specialed:

    I guess he thinks gameplay is fundamentally just playing the game and has nothing to do with the other aspects of the experience.
     
  10. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    Nah I'd still be rolling my eyes.

    Paranoid? No the word you're looking for is jaded.
     
  11. Palas

    Palas

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    That would be to propose playing a game is a logical, algorithmical process rather than a cognitive/emotional/physical one. Which is absurd. People like things for different reasons. Enjoying the presentation, music, characters and the hard-to-describe feeling of going through loops are reasons to like a game, as a game, just as valid as liking the rules of it or whatever you could (wrongly) describe as "pure gameplay".

    So there, if one likes Sonic, they do like Sonic. You don't have to play it till the end, or in the - supposedly - intended way, to like it.
     
  12. The Negative Ion

    The Negative Ion

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    Hey guys. I meant to post last night, but for some weird reason, I got knocked offline and I couldn't reconnect so I don't know if any more posts have come in since. But regardless, I never thought I'd get this much attention from any corner from the Sonic community, let alone this one! Thank you guys so much for giving my video the time of day, regardless if you liked it or not. I just figured a video like this just needed to exist and I'm glad that it's getting some kind of traction.
    I'll try to address all of your replies at the time of this writing as best as I can so we can talk. (Except for The Game Critique; I'll just reply to his YouTube comment later on if it's convenient for him)

    Well that's unfortunate that you're in the same boat as me; I just fell in at a later time. But I'm hopeful that we'll both get back into Sonic games one day.


    While I agree on the first two points that you made, I do believe that my disliking of the franchise goes deeper than age itself. I think the fact that I made a near hour long video expressing my discontent with the franchise is proof of that.
    Y' know, it's funny that you reference that video. I do agree with a handful of points that those guys made, but I almost lost it when they said that Sonic games couldn't be as bad as the Crash Bandicoot games. I was all like "You take that back right the hell now, you... you... person!" lol yeah; That's immature of me, I know. I think they said about Sonic is that speed was used mainly as a marketing tool to sell Genesis units and I do believe that's true to a degree, but I hadn't seen the video in a while, so I could just be remembering things wrong. I'll prolly look at it again at a later date.
    Now to your last point. I think it's good to take a break from Sonic games from time to time to help clear your head so you can go back in with a fresh mind. It's just that I've already been doing that a handful of times with no change in opinion. Maybe I'm just playing the wrong games on my break? I dunno, what do you think? What games would you recommend I follow up with after playing something like Sonic 3 for a while?


    Could you clarify what you mean by "types?" It could really refer to anything, whether it be fans, haters, people who are neutral to the series, etc.. It's just that you got me curious when you mentioned that Sonic Mania had reduced its quantity. Sorry for asking if it would be too much trouble for you.


    While I do agree that the Genesis was ahead of it's time, I don't know if I would say it's the best. As for the rewards being clear, it really depends on the game... and the rewards themselves for that matter. But it's like I said, anything can be considered a reward to some degree, really, so I can't really pick out a favorite gameplay engine myself. But to each his own, I guess.

    "Sucks to be you if you don't think so."
    Well, that's not very nice...


    Like I said to Laughingcow, I don't think age is what happened. While it's true that people get wiser as they grow older, I think people can use that newfound knowledge to have fun with Sonic games. I just haven't really found that knowledge yet. I'm not so sure about how the ball pit metaphor connects, but if you'd like to explain your stance, I'm all ears... er, eyes.
    Regardless, I do still hope that you and I can get back into liking Sonic games again.


    lol. "pimp." I see what you did there. But yeah, guilty as charged for the most part. I also joined because I wanted to see if anyone here was willing to have a discussion with someone with an opposing viewpoint. I just figured that a website that focuses primarily around Sonic games would be the best place to find civil dialogue. I could be wrong, though. It could only be a good place. lol


    Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed it.


    See my reply to Zephyr. In addition, I think people with opposing viewpoints can still join a community revolving around it as long as you're both willing to discuss it. I say no harm, no fowl. You both might even learn something new from the disagreement. Crazy how that works, huh?


    Well, I don't really know much about the Sonic community, so I can't really comment on that. But I do find it particularly interesting that you liked a game that you know hasn't aged well. I'm sure the reason goes beyond just nostalgia. I mean I played Sonic 3 when I was a kid, but look at what I think of it now. Maybe I'm just unlucky with how my brain is hardwired or something? lol, I dunno.
    Also, I don't think the series had lost that spark for me as much as I think that it just needs a reigniting. I'm sure the spark is still there somewhere because I wouldn't have made this video otherwise. Don't worry, I still have hope.


    Yeah, it's kind of a shame that we don't see a lot of people coming up with valid reasons to dislike the franchise. But here's a good mindfuck for you: Egoraptor likes Sonic 3... crazy, isn't it?
    Yeah, back in the old days, video games were less about art and more about... well... f'n video games! They're supposed to offer a unique experience in the entertainment medium that movies and books simply can't. Nowadays, if The Game Awards 2018 is anything to go off of, they've become just a more complicated way to watch TV. That's why I put most of my faith in indie games now. At least they can afford to take risks.
    As for the reason I'm here, sure, maybe seeking discussion with unlike-minded individuals isn't a major reason, but I was validated, so maybe the SonicRetro guys saw something that I could offer? I don't see why this Overlord person would trash this post. I mean I think I'm making a fairly positive contribution by offering an opposing viewpoint along with an invitation to civil discussion. That's what I posted in my validation post and that's what put me on here. Thanks for the advice, regardless.


    Sorry, the only OP I'm familiar with is "Over-Powered." I'm still new to this site. But regardless, you don't have to say anymore if you don't feel confident in doing so. I've been there before so I understand.


    Wow, those must've been the days, huh? I wish I could've been there to see it. When we were young, we've had our stupid little fun. But all things must come to an end whether it be for better or worse.


    Well I suppose that it for now. Sorry if I'm not all that great at talking to people, but I'll check back here later to see if I get anymore replies. Man, I was so nervous to see where this would go and I think I still might be, to be honest.
     
  13. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    OP stands, in this case, to Original Post, the one you started this thread with.
     
  14. snubn0zemunkey!

    snubn0zemunkey!

    yo what up Member
    I haven't watched your full video yet, but I'm a decent ways in. Honestly, what you say about wishing the field of view was scaled back so you could get a wider look at the map is something I've thought that 2D Sonic games could really benefit from for a while. That, coupled with enemies and stage hazards that are telegraphed effectively could really help with the whole "I don't have enough time to react to what's coming ahead of me" thing.
     
  15. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

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    Nope. When people are angry or sad they tend to say a lot on that emotional impulse. That's why internet videos where a guy complains about a thing are a mainstay of Youtube having shot people who honestly don't know much about what they're talking about to fame. It's called the Dunning-Kruger effect and makes for decent entertainment but ultimately lacks in actual merit. A youtuber known as "Third Rate Gamer" satirized this type of thing quite well.

    They don't have points. Not every piece of media appeals to every person whether it be a game, book, movie, etc. A single person or even a group of people not liking Sonic is not an objective meter of the game by any stretch of the imagination. The closest you could get to that is SALES and that's only because of the simple fact that people are putting their money where there mouths are.

    If I sound combative, that's because I was a playtester for a very special game that many many many many many people said shouldn't exist because insert reason here.
    https://store.steamp.../341940/Hatred/
    It didn't matter that some people wanted me and the dev team dead (not a joke, got death threats and doxes over this), it didn't matter how many hit pieces got written or the bad reviews from game bloggers, what mattered was people who liked the game bought it (this was post steam refunds mind you) and in a high enough volume that the development team continues to this day (having recently released an RTS called Ancestors). It's why I take random criticism with a grain of salt. In order for criticism to be of any merit, it has to come either from the target audience or from someone who can put his own feelings aside to see things in an objective (or as close to it as possible) light.

    If you don't know what kind of game you wish to play then you've got some introspection issues. Not every game is made for every gamer which is why you should already know what kind of games you like. That said, if you just want a game where you don't have to give a shit, pick up POSTAL 2. If you have a Switch, Xenoblade 2 and/or it's expansion Torna: The Golden Country. Octopath Traveller and ofcourse, Crash Bandicoot NSane Trilogy.
     
  16. The Negative Ion

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    Oh my goodness! So many more posts since last night I can barely keep up! Well I don't think I'll be able to reply to everyone this time, but I do wanna make a few things clear if they weren't already in the video. I had originally posted here on a Sonic forum because I legitimately wanted to have a discussion with individuals who had a different opinion from me. I don't really believe in games being of objective quality. If that were true, I think life would be pretty fucking boring. I think it's okay for one to dislike something that universally liked by many others; that's what makes them interesting. I think just me being here is proof of that. I always try to look for disagreements because I think that's the best way to learn new things. Too many agreements could end up putting me in my own echo chamber and I want to prevent that. The scary thing about that is that you don't even know that you're in one when you're in one. To me, disagreements are the needles that deflate that balloon. That's why I'm here.

    Well, games have objectives. The purpose of a game, video or not, is to meet that objective. The way that you do so is what I mean by actually playing the game. Overcoming the challenges set forth makes me feel like I accomplished something and I feel as if I've become better at what I do. Once that happens, then you can set personal challenges just because you want to because you enjoyed yourself the first time. Unfortunately, that's not the case with me and Sonic games. I didn't feel any sense of challenge playing Sonic 3 and so I couldn't really enjoy it. Everything else like the music, graphics, whatever, all that stuff is great. But it's all stuff that you can just look at a YouTube video for. As I told someone else here, video games offer a unique experience in the entertainment medium that simply can't be replicated in movies and books. The one thing that makes it unique is... well, player interaction. That's why I hold Sonic games to a different standard than Sonic comics or Sonic... dare I say it... movies. I mean games can still have their edgy characters and dark stories and cheesy one-liners if they want, that's fine. But to me, the objective and the means of reaching it is what matters most to me. That's what I mean by actually playing the game. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough in the video.

    I think you might've misunderstood what I said at that 15-minute mark. What I said was if the gameplay falls flat and if the game itself isn't fun to play, then everything else doesn't matter. I didn't necessarily say that everything else didn't matter, period. If that were the case, I think people would still be playing Marvel Vs. Capcom Infinite at EVO. Sorry if I didn't put enough emphasis on that. But anyway, I'm glad you thought the video was good. I didn't really make it for anyone to agree with it, but that's what makes conversations interesting.

    Also, sorry if it's taking me longer than you guys are comfortable with because like I said, I'm just really friggin' nervous not just to see what everyone would say, but also how to respond. I'm just really bad at PR, but I want to get better. That's another reason I'm doing this. But again, thanks for all the comment-- er... posts, I guess. I really appreciate it.

    Oh, and thanks, xRick. OP = Original Post, got it.
     
  17. Frostav

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    Two things:

    First of all, as TCG remarked in his retrospective, for a lot of younger gamers, Sonic is not a famous platforming video games from the 90's. It's Sonic 06 and Sonic Boom--a bizarre clusterfuck of a shitty series that is only liked by out-of-touch boomers and weird furries drawing weird fetish porn.

    However, despite this, Sonic has a massive and loyal fanbase. His games keep selling (even if the sales are finally starting to slow). He has a bunch of older fans like us who talk about his glory days. For a supposedly shitty series, Sonic doesn't die. So these younger fans, who only know Sonic from Let's Plays/shitty Youtube analyses of bad Sonic games (and horribly-played let's plays of the actually good ones), go back and check out the originals. And Sonic, for someone raised on Mario-derived platformers (AKA "literally every other platformer in existence besides Sonic), is extremely weird. We don't mind because we know and like Sonic's inertia and weight, and kids in the 90's were young and willing to try new things.

    These people don't know any framework of judging a platformer besides "how Mario-like is this" and Sonic "fails" such a standard, so they skip over the logical conclusion--"Sonic is a different kind of platformer and requires you to play it differently"--and fly straight to the utterly illogical one of "SONIC WAS NEVER GOOD AND IT'S CHEAP AND HARD AND IT'S NOT LIKE MARIO* AND THAT'S BAD".

    *:they never actually state this, but it's clear it's what they actually believe underneath all the superfluous verbiage
     
  18. Palas

    Palas

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    This is 100% true, and something I wish more people talked about.

    Sonic's legacy was simply interrupted. Mario more or less defined how platforming should be, not so much in terms of how you move around, but in how the game is structured. Mario is all about solving problems. If there's something on the stage, there's a reason for it. When you complete a level, you have solved it. There's a start, and there's a finish. Everything pretty well-woven. You probably did what you were supposed to, and if you don't - say, if you speedrun through it jumping around in weird ways or doing whatever strange thing people like this guy does, it's a transgression. The levels teach you, accommodate you, etc etc.

    Sonic doesn't work like that. You always leave things behind, things are just there and you don't really need anything but the character itself to complete a level. There's less of a puzzle-like environment, and just about anything you do feels like a transgression. Not that you aren't supposed to do that, but more like the game doesn't really know or care about what you're doing. And this approach simply... doesn't exist anymore, in gaming as a whole. This happened with Phantasy Star, too, when it comes to RPGs. So it's understandable that people find Sonic strange nowadays if they didn't grow up with it (or even if they did).
     
  19. Overlord

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    Funnily enough, I was the one who Trial'd him. Despite vehemently disagreeing with his core points on just about every level, the post itself was well written so he passed the bar of "don't be an obvious retard" that gets you into Trial. I've somewhat enjoyed reading the replies to this thread - I was going to trash it if it turned out to be an utter shitfest but there's an actual legit discussion going on here alongside the shitposting.

    However I will say that you're going to have to post about other things too if you're passing 20 posts - "I hate all Sonic games" being your sole schtick isn't exactly going to marry well with your continued membership of a heavily-Sonic-focused forum.
     
  20. snubn0zemunkey!

    snubn0zemunkey!

    yo what up Member
    As someone who sits in the Generation Z age range, the idea that Sonic is liked mainly by 60 year old boomers is really funny to me lol. Not entirely untrue though, Sonic is definitely a franchise that seems to stay relevant because of its legacy.

    With games like Sonic Lost World and Sonic Forces, that play in a very linear and hand-holdy way and at times feel like a generic run-of-the-mill type platformer, I genuinely wonder if this is a mentality that's bled into modern Sonic Team. These games don't feel like Sonic games to me and they instead feel more like the result of someone taking the basic aspects of a Sonic game (i.e. 'he goes fast and collects rings') and then reverse-engineering them to be more like a traditional Mario platformer. As if even they think people will find traditional Sonic strange.