Why doesn't Amy have the ability to curl?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Laughingcow, Nov 1, 2017.

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  1. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

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    Which doesn't work on higher inclines without level support or speed sneakers
    [media]https://youtu.be/v-0eYNZ1pL0?t=2m33s[/media]

    Speaking of which.
    Except the Spindash goes faster when rev'd which is why I mentioned the peel out which is a better solution than that underpowered giant step for inclines. Then you went on about Sonic 1 which is different then Sonic Advance in that the level design doesn't have a spindash to take into account for. Sonic is weaker without the spindash hence the LEVEL DESIGN accommodates that. If Amy is to be in a game going forward (now that we have the foresight of Sonic Advance) she needs something better than the giant step because you're still designing the level for an unquestionably weaker character when the logical solution is to make her better. Something you agree with yet still decided to argue about.
    If it wasn't a problem in someway, you wouldn't feel the need to buff up the move now would you?

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    Nice try, her hammer doesn't give her the benefit of a pervasive attack which makes her weaker. The issue is CURLING which (other than a way to build momentum going downhill faster) is an auto attack in the air that continues until landing. If you are going to stick with a manual input then it needs a Freedom Planet like Buff where you can attack in the air multiple times with some invincibility frames because the way she plays in Sonic Advance doesn't cut it. The issue isn't Sonic or Knuckles being too powerful but of Amy being too weak. And no, the hammer whirl doesn't solve that.
     
  2. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    It's nice to have a character that's not such a clone of the others and plays more like a classic pre-Sonic platformer, that's probably why. It was a more challenging mode that made you think differently.

    I think an unaltered Advance 1 moveset should be the way to go if she ever makes a 2D return.

    As pointed out, she could curl in cases of extreme necessity, but if I remember correctly she couldn't harm enemies that way and she seemed to emit some kind of faint cry while doing so, so she was probably having a hard time. =P

    ...Git gud, man. :v:
     
  3. roachdaripper

    roachdaripper

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    Trying not to rage when porting SADX/SA2 models on PC.
    The hammer is literally an insta shield clone, and just like the insta shield, you need to time it correctly. The heart-trail that follows the hammer also damages enemies/bosses so it's literally the insta-shield.
     
  4. Drex

    Drex

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    Repeating that it's an insta Shield over and over doesn't change the fact that the hammer is a very brief attack that leaves you vulnerable if you don't time it right. The vulnerability is severe downgrade from Sonic's actual insta Shield. They're not the same. Give it a rest.
     
  5. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    ... you can get up that slope without speed shoes.

    The giant step puts you at full speed, it's enough.

    I don't feel the need to buff up the move. I've already said I don't feel the need to buff up the move. I'm saying I have no problem with buffing up the move, because it doesn't change all that much.

    That's like complaining that the Caterkiller hurts you if you jump on its spikes.

    Try actually swinging the hammer so you hit the enemy with it. Also, you have a down+B move which is infinitely better for situations like that, acting like the bounce shield on enemies. Learn how to play the game, instead of complaining that the game doesn't do everything automatically for you.
     
  6. roachdaripper

    roachdaripper

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    Trying not to rage when porting SADX/SA2 models on PC.
    It's not so much a downgrade as requiring slightly stricter timing. It's no different in behaviour, giving Amy added range that the other characters don't have - making bossfights a cakewalk in the process - as well as giving her (albeit less than Sonic) invincibility frames.
     
  7. Because she is a girl.

    *Cough*

    Even thinking about it Blaze twirls and Rouge didn't roll in Adventure 2.

    I'm guessing they didnt want her to be overly aggressive in Adventure 1 because the gameplay was meant to be a "stealth" game and they wanted to try something in Advance 1 and 3. She curled up in Advance 2 and Heroes. Can't remember '06 but I remember invisible. Ugh that game. So basically awkward gameplay decisions.
     
  8. Drex

    Drex

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    You admit that hammer is a clone move (not unique) with worse attributes that somehow gives her aa advantage others don't have? Yeah, in combination with her high jump she can destroy certain bosses in the Sonic Advance series quicker than others, but that's hardly an advantage to it's usefulness during the rest of the game.
     
  9. big smile

    big smile

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    I really liked Amy in Sonic Advance. It was refreshing to have a character that was different from Sonic. It's too bad they didn't take advantage of her skills in the level design.

    Controversial opinion time: I always thought that Tails and Knuckles shouldn't be able to do a spindash. The reason? In S3k & Mania, Sonic is always my least favourite of the trio. Knuckles and Tails can do everything that Sonic can, plus they have their added abilities which are much better for exploring. The only thing Sonic offers is the ability to use shields and a few Super Sonic bonus levels, none of which makes him as interesting as Knuckles/Tails. Making the spindash exclusive to Sonic would make him more unique. Knuckles and Tails would have to instead work to build up speed (like in Sonic in Sonic 1).
     
  10. Chaos Rush

    Chaos Rush

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    In both S3&K and Mania I actually prefer playing as Sonic because the shield abilities outclass Tails & Knuckles’ abilities IMO. Yeah flying and climbing is great and all but maneuvering around with their abilities is slower than it would take with Sonic's shield abilities.
     
  11. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

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    I'm surprised out of all the Sonic characters and sprites we've had, a fun cartwheel hasn't been a thing yet!
    Vector's spin in Chaotix is kind of wheel-like but that's the closest we've got. Damn, I never knew this needed to be a thing..

    Objection! Whilst I agree regarding S3K, the Drop Dash gave Sonic far more value in Mania. Certain sections like the SSZ Metal Sonic boss as Knux/Tails made me go "man, I wish I could just Drop Dash right now..."
    Once it gets burned into your muscle memory you're a convert for life.
     
  12. Stimil Rc.

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    If your problem with Tails and Knuckles having the spin dash is that it makes Sonic less unique, then why don't you just not spin dash as Tails and Knuckles? It not unintuitive to not do. Just because you can doesn't mean you have to.

    I find Sonic more fun to play as than Tails or Knuckles. Those two can explore more easily, but I don't really find flying or gliding to be very fun to use compared to the shield powers and Insta-Shield/Drop Dash unless a stage is designed with them in mind like Knuckles' Mirage Saloon Act 1. When it comes to simply accessing areas more easily than Sonic, flying/gliding usually just feels slow and uninteresting compared to other methods of reaching them. Plus, Knuckles can't immediately move after landing from a glide.
     
  13. roachdaripper

    roachdaripper

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    Trying not to rage when porting SADX/SA2 models on PC.
    I never disputed that it was a clone move. However worse attributes no. It's functionally identical, just has stricter timing.

     
  14. Sean Evans

    Sean Evans

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    Can you bypass projectiles and hazards with it?
     
  15. big smile

    big smile

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    I am talking in terms of both gameplay and character design. Spinning was one of the key reasons they made Sonic a hedgehog so when you start giving a key move such as the spin dash to everyone it sort of spoils the uniqueness.

    That's one of the things I appreciated about Chaotix. All the characters have the same basic moves, but the designers made sure they all looked different. This was a lesson lost on the designers of Sonic Heroes (where even Charmy can spin despite being an airborne character).
     
  16. Sean Evans

    Sean Evans

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    Echidna's can curl into balls too. In fact that's the reason Knuckles is an Echidna. I get where you're coming from though. That always bugged me too. I could live with all the characters rolling, since it's such a core mechanic, but at the very least I figured only Sonic should be allowed to Spin Dash.
     
  17. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    I don't know if you can or not, but I'll make the case that it should deflect projectiles.
     
  18. roachdaripper

    roachdaripper

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    Trying not to rage when porting SADX/SA2 models on PC.
    Agreed. I'd need to experiment to see if you can actually deflect projectiles.
    Logically it'd make more sense for Sonic to be unable to do so, since Amy at least should be able to use her hammer to parry or deflect projectiles.
     
  19. roachdaripper

    roachdaripper

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    Trying not to rage when porting SADX/SA2 models on PC.
    So an update, I played through the entirety of Sonic Advance 1 as Amy, and she cannot deflect projectiles.
    However I discovered two new moves which I haven't seen anybody else use in multiple play-through videos on YouTube. Leading me to believe that hardly anybody knows about them, since they're dead useful.

    The first is, when Amy is doing her quick-step (replacement for the spin-dash) if you press B while she's in mid-air, she'll trip and fall flat on her face, though while in this state she's invulnerable.
    The second is, when Amy is in mid-air, instead of simply pressing B to swing the hammer once, if you hold Down then press B she'll perform a twirling move which loops, meaning you can bounce off of enemies and bosses.
    It also seems to do double damage to bosses, I couldn't reliably test this since I was playing on hardware, not an emulator, so no save-states, but if someone could confirm that, that'd be great.
     
  20. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    You could also try reading the manual, where both of these are described...
     
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