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Why doesn't Amy have the ability to curl?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Laughingcow, Nov 1, 2017.

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  1. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

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    Something that's been on my mind recently, was there ever any official reason Amy couldn't curl up like the others? Granted, post Sonic Adventure 2/Sonic Advance 2 she was given that ability but in Sonic Adventure/Sonic Advance 1, she couldn't and I cannot figure the reasoning behind this even from a gameplay standpoint.

    In Sonic Adventure, she spent most of her time running away from Zero. Even if you did use the hammer to hit him (standing or jumping) the effect was the same. In the case of aerial antics, she could just be somersaulting with the hammer meaning one less button input. Wouldn't change the fact Zero gets immune if hit too many time.

    Likewise, in Sonic Advance, the lack of curling was just a bad idea. There's no middle ground for that, you are essentially a nerfed Sonic in that game. She plays like her Sonic Adventure counterpart which is bad (the lack of a proper spindash makes going up some inclines impossible) as it doesn't adapt to the classic 2d formula properly making everything in the game (except some boss fights with the hammer whirl) harder than they need to be.

    My own guess on the matter is that the idea made sense in Sonic Adventure as a way to make her feel unique but didn't work from a design standpoint in the later games (Amy was a SPEED character in Sonic Adventure 3 despite previous games) hence why there isn't much congruence with that design. Storywise, you could just give the excuse that she "learned" how at some point but I'd rather not talk about theoretical story reasons especially when her ability to turn invisible from Sonic 06 will probably never be addressed.

    That said, if her classic counterpart ever becomes officially playable, I'm expecting her to curl and spindash. Hammer could work like the instashield, not sure how the hammer jump would work though.
     
  2. Frostav

    Frostav

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    To make her slow and force you to use her hammer. That's literally it.
     
  3. MiSHiKiS

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    Because her dress makes it hard to bend into a curl
     
  4. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    My guess: In SA1, half the cast could curl, so they didn't want to give the ability to Amy as well. In Sonic Advance, they were just being consistent with SA1. I'd rather they had never given her the curl; she plays too much like a Sonic clone in the games she has the ability.
     
  5. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    She was only given the ability to curl in Adventure 2 to balance out multiplayer, and in Heroes because it's easier to design levels when all the teams play more-or-less the same.

    I like her better without the ability to curl. It makes her more unique while still keeping her relatively Sonic-like. I never had a problem going up inclines in Advance - you still have the stepdash move which puts you at a decent running speed nearly instantly, which is more than Sonic had in Sonic 1, and it can double as an attacking move with the headbutt.

    The hammer gives her the ability to do an insta-shield; to gain great height; and to smash through walls. Her not having the ability to roll balances the game so she can't do everything the others can too. You could argue that the better fix is to give the other characters more moves, like giving Sonic a bounce he can use at all times, or giving Knuckles a jumpdash-like drill move; but then the argument becomes "how much control do you give to the player" rather than "why can't Amy curl?"
     
  6. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

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    Giving her a Super Peel out variant would be my preference. Especially on shorter inclines where you have to move back near the edge to get up said inclines. Not to mention the bigger ones which fortunately tend to have a booster or some kind of running space (See Neo Greenhill act 1, right after the highway part, try to get up there without the booster).

    If you're gonna bring Sonic 1 into this, keep in mind that Sonic could curl into a ball while running which also kept him moving unlike the headbutt which kills all of your momentum (thinking about it, Amy does work as a joke character). Not to mention we've come a long way since then and if I may offer a solution, Freedom Planet 2 allows you to attack while running.

    Not to mention, this doesn't address the initial issue. Without the curl/auto-attack while jumping, she's placed in a unique disadvantage against regular baddies especially if they are right above her.

    Edit: Thinking about it, if she played like a Freedom Planet character, I'd totally be down for that.
     
  7. Sean Evans

    Sean Evans

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    Or she could just do what Espio does and twirl around. They could justify it by making it look like a ballet move.

    Actually wait, Lilac does that too. Hmmm...
     
  8. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    Sure, a Super Peelout variant works too; I'm not arguing that she shouldn't have an ability that allows her to gain speed.

    What does this have to do with going up slopes?

    Well no, of course the bit where I address you saying it's difficult to get up slopes doesn't address a different situation.

    But, er... as you said yourself, other characters have an auto-attack. Amy's is just a manual attack. I don't see it as much of a disadvantage, just requiring more input from the player (compare with insta-shield in Sonic 3).
     
  9. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

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    I could ask the same thing when you brought up Sonic 1 where that problem DOES come up, and is addressed with curling in certain areas to gain momentum (Spring Yard Zone) or with stage specific gimmicks (like the fans in Starlight zone). At that point, you are designing the level for said weakness (hence the springs and floating platforms seen in Neo Greenhill). A weakness that we got rid off in CD & Sonic 2 with invent of the spindash that I find simply not fun in a Sonic game.

    The issue is CURLING, this includes all facets of that.

    More input than necessary that slows things down. And unlike Sonic (who doesn't have to use the insta-shield except on certain enemies), Amy has no choice making every regular enemy harder as a consequence. To use Freedom Planet as an example, if she could swing her hammer with reckless abandon that would solve this problem. Or would you consider that as making her to powerful?
     
  10. roachdaripper

    roachdaripper

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    I always thought in terms of story purposes is that she was simply less athletic than Sonic - having to use her hammer as leverage to do pretty much any of the things Sonic can do naturally - and my backing for this is that in SA1 Amy is simply a citizen of Station Square, you even see her with a typical grocery bag before she's shoehorned into the plot by Zero and the bird.
     
  11. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    Or in just running backwards for a bit and then forwards for a bit (Green Hill Zone, Star Light Zone).

    I agree, which is why I've already supported having a Super Peelout variant.

    In the context of what was said:
    The only time I mentioned Sonic 1 was quite clearly in reference to going up inclines. But this is an aimless argument anyway.

     
  12. Aesculapius Piranha

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    Amy is kind of a bystander. She doesn't have super speed like some of the others.

    Honestly there are a lot of characters that probably shouldn't be able to do that attack but do because it is just kind of accepted as a thing everyone in Sonic can do, either because gameplay or because of a donutsteel level of creativity.
     
  13. Ch1pper

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    I guess the SA1 staff just really liked how she played in Sonic the Fighters, where she also wasn't a curling carbon copy of Sonic/Tails/Knuckles? :v:
     
  14. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Nah but she's just not experienced like Sonic and the others as a fighter. It made sense back in the earlier appearances -- Adventure 1, Advance 1 and such, because all she did up until then was glomp Sonic at the end of Palmtree Panic and get kidnapped. I like to imagine by Adventure 2 and Heroes, she just got stronger.

    and 06 didn't happen so I don't have to bullshit some explanation for it
     
  15. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    Late to the party, but nice question. I'll bring in a couple of maybe-someday-used design ideas I have for her on different maybe-someday-developed projects I have in mind:

    1) In a project with many many characters that adhere to the classic formula of characters even if rolling or spindashing doesn't make sense for them, Amy uses the hammer as an insta-shield like you said (with some little quirks, in my case), now that Sonic has the drop dash. The hammer goes unused the rest of the time, and the difference between characters comes in the form of different sizes, jump heights, spin radius, and acceleration. In that project, Cream also rolls and doesn't throw her best friend towards the enemies, has a new double jump skill instead.

    2) In a project where I give her a more unique moveset (not the same as in Advance games, but there are coincidences), she rolls but doesn't hurt enemies with her roll unless she uses the hammer, and does things that make her quite different from Sonic but still balanced to be a reasonable counterpart that doesn't fly, glide or climb.

    Either way, I feel Amy should roll just because, unlike Tails, she's a hedgehog, a more suited species for rolling than a fox, and the little two-tailed buddy was the first one getting the spindash after Sonic. At least we had Mighty once for an alternate rolling character.
     
  16. Boxer Hockey

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    I just briefly thought of a sprite for Amy where she cartwheels instead of spinning and it made me spit up my tea.
     
  17. :v:

    [​IMG]

    I know, I know... y'all mean "officially". :P
     
  18. InvisibleUp

    InvisibleUp

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    I never understood why Amy's gimmick in that game was turning invisible. Like, why? How? At least Espio is a chameleon, so he has an excuse.
     
  19. Crappy Blue

    Crappy Blue

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    Honestly, this is an adorable concept.
     
  20. Rika Chou

    Rika Chou

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    Advance 1 does that too.
     
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