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Why does anybody like the time limit in Sonic games?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Willie, Mar 29, 2012.

Do you like the time limit in Sonic games?

  1. Yes.

    34.8%
  2. No.

    25.2%
  3. I don't care.

    40.0%
  1. Willie

    Willie

    Each day the world turns Laugh 'til it all burns Member
    There is nothing wrong with arcade styled games if they're executed well, it's just certain elements of arcade styled games end up feeling half-assed on consoles. While I don't own the Metal Slug Anthology, I've read that game gives gamers the option of play the game with unlimited continues or limited continues. Judging from one time I played Metal Slug 4 at an arcade, I imagine every game on that collection is probably piss easy with unlimited continues turned on. Granted, the continues setup worked well for the arcade version because it was a good way to get people to continue putting in quarters, but it feels illogical in a home console setup. A time limit also made sense for the arcade version of Sonic games because you don't want some kid hogging the arcade machine for six hours to explore every ounce of every level. It doesn't make sense in a home console experience because it feels like an unnecessary add-on from the arcades.
     
  2. Volpino

    Volpino

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    Maybe it's just because I've never actually played an arcade game (And I have played enough, I think) that I thought worked well at home. On my Win95, the games felt limited, but they made sense in an arcade; you can't make a huge game like Spyro or Tails Adventures and plonk it in the middle of an arcade and expect kids to share, but at home, it's the exact opposite.

    For the record, I've only stepped in an arcade once in my life so I have a limited perspective on how arcade games work in an actual arcade. (That was one of the worst experiences of my life.)
     
  3. f2bnp

    f2bnp

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    It's useless, but I rarely notice. I occasionally have some trouble beating Carnival Night Zone within the time limit, but I've never had it intervene like that in any other stage!
     
  4. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    What arcade games did you play.

    The falling pieces in Tetris count as a time limit.
     
  5. Rosie

    Rosie

    aka Rosie Member
    I think a good way to reintroduce the time limits would be to have varying time limits per stage, but the clock would count downwards, explicitly showing the player that they should be aiming to achieve a fast time. This would prevent people being confused when they die after 5 minutes in one stage, and 7 in the next. The amount of time available would be slower than you'd need to complete the stage, but doing it quickly would give you bonus points and a better rank.

    You could have the option to turn the time limit off, but you'd only be able to get a maximum of rank A, and not S.
     
  6. Volpino

    Volpino

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    Asteroids, several Space Invaders copies for PC, a Frogger remake for PC, not sure if Minesweeper counts, some pinball game that came with Win95, some games based off H.E. characters where you shot things or bounced a dog around like some brick breaker, some game called Diamonds or something but I barely remember it now, several Pac-Man remakes for PC, a Tetris remake for PC, and whatever games were present on Cartoon Network's site back when AOL was still a thing. (I remember not being able to play them when someone wanted to use the phone. :V)

    For the record, Pac-Man and Tetris never held my interest for very long. My attitude was, and still is, "All you do is stack blocks or eat things and you never get anything for it." I just kind of group any game that plays like that under "arcade."
     
  7. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Man, you have a lot of catching up to do with videogames, seriously.
     
  8. Vangar

    Vangar

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    The time limit in Sonic is a reminder that the game is supposed to be completed faster as you get more skilled at the game. I do like it but I can see how It doesn't need to be a requirement.

    Lives allow you to continue from checkpoints in the level. If you run out of lives, you need to do the level from the start. This is still a method that works. (See: Sonic Generations)
     
  9. Volpino

    Volpino

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    No I don't, just because I don't play the games you like doesn't mean shit.
     
  10. Willie

    Willie

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    The only problem I have with Generations' lives system is the fact restarting it from the pause menu causes you to lose a life. I can exit out of the level, then re-enter it from the hub-world and not lose a life. It's essentially the same process as clicking restart, but just more time consuming which makes the loss of a life from restarting a level seem extremely pointless. I don't think Mario or Sonic will ever get rid of the lives system since it's such an iconic part of their games. The time limit however, isn't.
     
  11. Solid SOAP

    Solid SOAP

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    My problem with the time limit is that it's too long to even be considered a challenge, but the fact that it's there completely discourages exploration. I only really ever found it a problem in Sonic CD, which has a heavy emphasis on exploration above speed, it just isn't necessary in a game like that nor is it necessary in the classics. What makes the timer in classic Mario intuitive is the fact that it times down, and the higher number you have on your time, the more points you'll receive on your overall score. In Sonic, your score is based on how fast you beat the level, yes, but I'm pretty sure you just don't earn any sort of time bonus after a certain time on the clock, thus making the 10 minute timer pointless.
     
  12. Ravenfreak

    Ravenfreak

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    Time limit in Sonic CD? Well no more in my hack. :v: You'll find it in this post:
    http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=15930&view=findpost&p=675354
     
  13. Willie

    Willie

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    I really appreciate the fact you've been making these rom hacks. I really enjoyed replaying Sonic 2 without the time limit and I'm especially enjoying S3&K without the time limit. Thank you. ^_^
     
  14. Volpino

    Volpino

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    I think that's awesome, though it's a shame I can't apply that to the new version or I might actually spend money on it. :V
     
  15. The only time the time limit was a problem was when I was younger and I was bad at the Sonic Games... And if I did get a time over, I'd just lose a life, and have to start at the last checkpoint. Not much of a problem, just a momentary setback.
     
  16. Cyrus

    Cyrus

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    Sonic without a timer wouldn't feel right in my opinion.
     
  17. Sonic 65

    Sonic 65

    Tech Member
    As it stands it's a pretty useless and dumb design decision, but I think it'd be more justifiable if the games had fairly strict level-specific time limits. Something like two to four minutes, varying depending on the level. Could make planning and exploring multiple routes matter a lot more during regular playthroughs, as opposed to just score/time/ring attack (exploration for the sake of exploration isn't very fun.) If linearity becomes a problem then you could balance the routes so that there are many near-optimal routes to take through each level instead of just one (easier said than done, but hey), and you could just have a separate "exploration mode" or whatever if people complained. As it stands the argument claiming the limit is supposed to make the game more "arcade style" doesn't work very well either; it's rare that you'll actually die because of the time limit unless you're going out of your way to cover the entire level (score/ring attack, etc.) An arcade game would have far more strict limits (if it chose to have them) as well as far higher difficulty, and the ring mechanic would probably be axed in that setting as well.

    [quote author="Volpino"]See: Flower, Journey, Proteus, Minecraft, To The Moon, Dear Esther, and a bunch of other games that all have questionable amounts of "difficulty" but which are still games and which some of have actually been critically acclaimed.[/quote]

    That'd be because most game journalists/critics will slap a 10/10 score on anything with the word "indie" attached to it. I don't think any of these are very good videogames (though all of them are videogames, without any doubt -- don't know how there's even any debate on that.) The point of games aren't to be challenging, and the challenge argument doesn't even work very well in this context (since the time limit doesn't add much of it if you aren't playing for rings/score), but challenge is a major part of what makes games engaging in the first place (it draws us into the world the game creates, which isn't only done with things like art and sound but also with things like level design, enemy design, etc. that demand the player directs his full attention to the game and what's going on inside it), especially with older 2D titles. This doesn't factor in too much to the Sonic series, but it's a general undercurrent in this thread so I figured I'd say something about it.
     
  18. The Game Collector

    The Game Collector

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    Pretty much exactly what they did in Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee. Not having those score counters, time limits or lives was one of the features they used to describe the game as special.
     
  19. Volpino

    Volpino

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    The bit about indie games is not true, at all, I don't even know where it came from. Indie games get bad press too, you know.

    I can agree with most of the rest but while I think some kind of task for the player is required for them to feel immersed, I think "challenge" is a bit of an inaccuracy; something doesn't need to be hard to be engaging.

    Edit: I have also played all the games that I listed. Not sure if that counts for much around here since 99.9% of the populace disagrees with me on EVERYTHING related to game-quality and vice-versa. :l
     
  20. Rosie

    Rosie

    aka Rosie Member
    I feel it has to be pointed out that "challenge", doesn't have to be challenging. The challenge presented could be a fairly easy one, saying otherwise implies that turning down the difficulty level stops something from being a game.