don't click here

Which Sonic game would you recommend to a newcomer?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Snub-n0zeMunkey, Jul 31, 2024.

  1. qwertysonic

    qwertysonic

    Member
    1,002
    360
    63
    creating the biggest sonic collection
    I think the 90's Sonic games in general are easier than other platformers, but to be fair most of the games in the 90's were hard. Games have gotten easier (or at least more accessible) in later years. I think that's why Dark Souls was such a big hit. It attempted to bring back some of that masochism of 90's video games.
     
  2. I'd recommend either Sonia Mania or Origins for a newcomer. Since Origins has infinite lives, it's probably better for those who haven't played a 2d Sonic game before though. Don't know what 3d game I'd recommend though.... maybe Frontiers or Generations
     
  3. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    The one game I'd recommend if I could only pick one is Mania since it is the most accessible game.

    Origins is the best way to experience the classics. I'd also recommend Adventures and Generations but only if they are a fan.
     
  4. The Deleter

    The Deleter

    Member
    146
    72
    28
    Depends on their age and if they're already into video games or not.

    If they're avid gamers, then Origins and Mania no question. Easily the most compelling Sonic gameplay has ever been, and Origins takes a lot of frustrations with the lives system and poor level balancing out of the equation for gamers who are more used to modern standards.

    If they're not gamers, I'd still suggest Mania, but cautiously. If it's anyone under the age of 12 that suddenly evaporates because I have failed over four times to get kids into that game, so it has to be a taste thing. I feel like SXSG is looking to be the next best bet for a polished game that appeals in concepts beyond gameplay but it's really a massive tossup at that point.
     
  5. BenoitRen

    BenoitRen

    Tech Member
    775
    383
    63
    A compilation is not a single game, damn it! Please stop mentioning Sonic Origins!
     
  6. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    It's weird trying to recommend Sonic games to people now, because I think platformers being so established in their ways the past 30 years has made even the best games in the series very divisive.

    For one, the twitch reflexes needed were maybe more honed in back in the '90s with arcade fanatics and NES finger-scrapers, but people now often cry foul at the stages throwing something at them that they "couldn't react to". It doesn't help that single-player games in general are no longer built for replayability (rather longevity) so people aren't as dedicated to playing games over and over to get better understanding of how things work.

    Then you have the mechanics themselves. Most other platformers don't really do analog acceleration; they often lock the character into set binaries that assure a character reacts a specific way no matter what. This is definitely not how classic Sonic works, so Sonic having trouble accelerating up slopes or coasting after letting go of the D-Pad tends to be a big problem for newbies. Nothing impossible to learn, but definitely plays against how they've been wired to think.

    And the ring loss mechanic, once seen as a lenient health system that let you get by on one ring, is now more commonly seen as a harsh punishment for not gripping with it's controls, as you lose all the rings you spent time building up on one misunderstanding of the physics or a missed reaction input. And sure, you could tell the player to just roll to take on those enemies they run into, but most players don't know it's there or what it does, mostly due to neither the game NOR the manuals ever explaining it to the player.

    None of this is to dog on the classic titles, btw. They're fantastic games; some of the best ever made. But their DNA is so far removed from the common player's idea of a platformer that I think Sonic just feels alien to many, unless they either played it first/most, or are actively willing to take the time to learn it. And with the current gaming landscape, I feel like the patience for that has only grown smaller and smaller.

    But the amount of people gaming has grown bigger and bigger, so maybe it evens out. Idk.

    My point isn't that Sonic is too far removed from the public to be widely accessible anymore, but rather that the series due to this (and it's host of uhhhh unsavory games) has led to it becoming one big YMMV franchise. You honestly just gotta figure out the player you're introducing Sonic to is willing to deal with, and route them accordingly. Do you think they can handle the challenge? Play the classics. Do you think they'd like something a bit more binary, but still playing by the rules? The boost games will do. Do you think something inbetween that occasionally gives them a break from the Sonic laws is good? Try the Adventures. Do you think they can hardly handle it and need a largely different kind of game? Hand them Frontiers, lmao.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  7. Antheraea

    Antheraea

    Bug Hunter Member
    in practice, my close friend who tried to pick up Mania had "no idea what [he was] doing", probably because the Classic games came out in a time where manuals were how you learned how to play the game and Mania came out so far after them that it just assumes you'd know how the series' quirks work. it's vexing because like, Mania is the closest to polished this series ever gets despite its issues, but it's also pretty clearly made for Sonic superfans, which makes me tempted to say that if you want to try to teach someone how to play Sonic, you start with Sonic 1 REV01 and watch them game over in Marble Zone lol--er, joking aside, actually, Sonic 1 does come the closest to traditional platforming of the classic titles IMO.
     
  8. qwertysonic

    qwertysonic

    Member
    1,002
    360
    63
    creating the biggest sonic collection
    That's my experience learning Sonic. It's given me a Stockholm syndrome for the Marble Zone music.
     
  9. Wraith

    Wraith

    Member
    348
    192
    43
    IMO Mania is better for this than a lot of people give credit for because the lower routes are rarely punishing. In Studiopolis specifically I noticed where it was a lot of the flashier, watch sonic do x cool thing stuff was located, as if they were trying to onboard people who were coming from the more spectacle driven modern games and likely to be struggling.

    The biggest tripping point I've noticed in the first half is usually the Mean Bean Machine boss. I like it and think it was worth including, but I wonder sometimes if placing it on an off-route- and giving newer players a more standard boss to fight would have been best. I know how silly it sounds for a game that already has almost 30 bosses in it to have another one cooked up though. Like most ideas you see on forums I'm sure it was thought through and rejected for a good reason.

    Every Sonic game tries to be accessible, but put a kid in front of Sonic Mania and it's easy to see why the modern series changed so much. They expect a lot more from games now on every front, as they should. Some of this is inevitable with how far the arcadey platformer fell out of style, but there are still some Sonic-isms worth scrutinizing no matter the era like the camera crunch. That just won't ever be a problem in a 3D game no matter what. There are other things to consider, like a more concrete story and characters that are really worth caring about. More "freedom" in terms of how you tackle challenges and bosses. Space to explore, take a breather, and move at your own pace. A lack of glitches since they can create inconsistency in the mechanics and thus frustration.

    With all that in mind Frontiers is probably your best bet. It's got some polish and control issues but they're pretty minor compared to the game's 6th gen counterparts. I don't think it's perfect at this, but it feels like a genuine attempt to acclimate the series to modern tastes.
     
  10. Overlord

    Overlord

    Now playable in Smash Bros Ultimate Moderator
    19,439
    1,063
    93
    Long-term happiness
    Not every video game needs to have a complex story, even now in 2024. It really can be just as simple as "Runny McSpeedFast beats up the evil fat guy." You don't even need a reason why.
     
  11. Zephyr

    Zephyr

    Member
    3,681
    592
    93
    US
    With how popular games like Minecraft and Fortnite are with kids today, I do not think that lack of a more concrete story and characters is what will turn them off of Mania.
     
  12. BenoitRen

    BenoitRen

    Tech Member
    775
    383
    63
    Flappy Bird took the world by storm a decade ago and that had no story to speak of.
     
  13. The Deleter

    The Deleter

    Member
    146
    72
    28
    Both of those games are largely social experiences and phenomenon though, alongside others that blew up in the same ways. The comparison largely falls flat without Mania, or the type of game Mania is, having an equivalent selling point to hook potential audiences with. And for some, story and characters are those sorts of reasons. (not to mention games like Fortnite doing specifically well because of the characters incorporated)

    Even Flappy Bird took the world by storm largely due to social phenomenon, where a gameplay experience that looks like a shitpost and a high skill ceiling basically guarantees a "look, let me try" kind of effect for a free phone game.

    Can something similar for Sonic be achieved, while keeping the presentation of classic games intact? Sure, but I doubt that's what anyone arguing in favor of the style would be hoping to achieve, considering the examples being cited and their reasons for drawing in their playerbases in spite of their barebones nature.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2024
  14. Zephyr

    Zephyr

    Member
    3,681
    592
    93
    US
    My point is that "kids these days" do not need a deep story to enjoy a game. Your point that they still need some kind of hook (ie: social phenomenon) is important as well, but it only reinforces my point. Kids do not, in fact, expect more from games "on every front". If one front (story) is lacking, another (social aspect) can pick up the slack, to much success. My nieces and nephews also seem to enjoy Mario Kart and Smash Bros. quite a bit, likely in part due to the social aspect.

    As for the "Fortnite does well because of the characters", I'm sure the insane range of crossover is a big part of the game's appeal, but I don't think that's what Wraith meant by "characters".
     
  15. The Deleter

    The Deleter

    Member
    146
    72
    28
    Your original point was "I don't think a lack of story or characters is what turned them off of Mania", probably because it was mentioned in isolation by the post before that. The point made originally never even carried story as the single or primary reason for that, nor an outright necessity for success. Instead it got singled out from general musings on what possibly hooks prospective modern audiences better than a game like Mania does - and now the examples that are being quoted in turn, in order to refute the implication of it being a beneficial hook for audiences flat-out, rely on different hooks that don't apply to Mania that far outpace the conversation in the process.

    "A game doesn't need a story to do well with kids these days" isn't an untrue statement; it never was. But story being a possible hook for prospective audiences isn't untrue either, and if the biggest counter argument to even a brief mention of the idea that story can do that is "no, they don't expect more on all fronts, just look at *insert games here that offer far more robust possibilities of experiences than the potential hooks single player games rely on*", that doesn't exactly help the lack of equivalent hooks in turn. Especially when the most direct route to following that train of thought would be attempting to add that social element in imitation, and we all know how Superstars turned out...

    What's crazy is that might as well be the same in either case; there's actually entire wikis for the game's original story and characters by now. Yes, Fortnite has story. It's insane.
     
  16. Wraith

    Wraith

    Member
    348
    192
    43
    On the contrary, I think it's a bigger deal for a single player game than most are giving credit here. Even if you were to use fortnite as a counterexample I'd argue they do enough with the lore to give younger folks something to chew on at least.

    Even if the storytelling isn't a dealbreaker I think the simplistic characters could be. Something like cuphead or Undertale has much more -animated- characters constantly being thrown at you and I've seen those game attract young people despite some hardcore trappings. In-depth character writing like you'd see in a drama isn't really what I had in mind, but much louder characters with more put into their presentation and more space given to them is.
     
  17. Snub-n0zeMunkey

    Snub-n0zeMunkey

    yo what up Member
    803
    875
    93
    Does the simplistic storytelling in traditional Mario games ever impact their success? Genuinely wondering, I feel like it makes those games more universal and accessible. I guess the idea of feeling grand in scope and cinematic can be appealing (which is probably why I like Mario Galaxy so much lol)
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2024
  18. Wraith

    Wraith

    Member
    348
    192
    43
    Mario Games are light on traditional storytelling but I think odyssey gained a lot from flashy setpieces that put things like T Rex Mario front and center. Before then the platformers that had some kind of social aspect(multiplayer in the NSMB series) sold better than the ones that didn't. Might seem moot for a series that always does well anyway but I think it's worth noting.
     
  19. Zephyr

    Zephyr

    Member
    3,681
    592
    93
    US
    I've never played Fortnite myself, so I had no idea it actually had lore. Curious if there's an attempt to tie all of the various IP crossovers into some sort of cohesive plot.

    The point about loudly presented and animated characters is interesting when talking about Sonic, given that that sort of thing is part of what originally set Sonic apart from his contemporaries: how expressive and brimming with personality his sprite was. Obviously something like the Sonic in Mania is less expressive than what we get in Cuphead, and it could be neat to see a new 2D outing try to match that energy.
     
  20. Jaxer

    Jaxer

    Member
    606
    417
    63
    If anything is turning younger players away from Mania, it's the pixel art graphics.

    From my experience, children are not interested in games that look old, as they associate oldness with jank and excessive difficulty. It sucks, but that's just the way it is.