Which main series Sonic game has the highest skill ceiling in speedrun

Jayextee · Aug 2, 2012

Azu said:

I've always felt that Sonic Heroes has some of learning curve for Speed Runs, considering long long 90% of the levels are.

(video)
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Crikey, my buttocks clenched a lot during that -- so many blind leaps of faith into unseen (and thin as hell) grind rails. Looks like we've found the highest luck ceiling. :v:

muteKi · Aug 2, 2012

Yeah, Rail Canyon is fucking terrifying to play through if you're as afraid of heights as I am.

(Also, if you liked that, ride the Sandia Tramway someday. If you look down far enough you can see the ruins of the plane crash from the mid-50s.)

BulimicCannibal · Aug 2, 2012

AerosolSP said:

@Cannibal: No there isn't a difference. A glitch by any other name is a glitch. Wavedashing, snaking...I can do it, sure, but it's all bullshit. I've thrashed people that rely on exploits in a great many games. And in fact, a lot of the highest level players I've fought in Brawl don't even bother with wavedashing.

The clue is in your own post. Exploits are unintentional, just like glitches.
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Yes there's a very clear difference. Exploits are using a design flaw in the game to gain an advantage using recognised in game mechanics, glitches are things such as accessing out of bound areas or distorting player models.
I honestly don't see how you could consider snaking a glitch of all things, it's simply repeatedly drifting over and over to take advantage of boost, I find it quite ironic that you are so anti exploit yet a lot of games you've probably
played have mechanics that have originated from in game exploits. I mean combos were originally unintended in fighting games yet they immerged in Street Fighter 2 by accident and they have been used in numerous fighting games ever since.

Aerosol · Aug 2, 2012

What? You say an exploit is a design flaw...what do you think glitches are, exactly? They're both design flaws, with varying degrees of consequential severity. Combos may have been an accident in Street Fighter 2, but they're certainly not an accident now, are they? I don't care if a game I'm playing now has mechanics that originated from an exploit in an earlier game. I'm not playing that earlier game.

I'm not "anti-exploit". I'm against exploiting a game's flaws and proclaiming that you've mastered the game. It's like learning to run before you walk, dude. You want to know why I've thrashed so many wavedash abusers? Because besides that trick, they haven't gotten to grips with playing the game how it was meant to be played first.

Jayextee · Aug 2, 2012

Also, this was to back up Aerosol's point.

Jayextee said:

Learning an exploit does not constitute skill.

Skill is the combined aptitudes for timing, reactions, perception, hazard navigation, pathfinding, et cetera. It's like my point with Sonic 1 versus 2/3/K -- simply learning to cleanly stop and spindash is not what I'd consider a skill versus the various abilities required to speedrun a Sonic 1 level.
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And it sticks with what he's saying. Glitch play != skilled play. (Though I concede, they're not mutually exclusive at all)

Aerosol · Aug 2, 2012

Of course. Some glitches take a lot of skill to reproduce reliably. But they still allow a player to play the game in a way completely unintended by the designer of that game.

BulimicCannibal · Aug 3, 2012

AerosolSP said:

Of course. Some glitches take a lot of skill to reproduce reliably. But they still allow a player to play the game in a way completely unintended by the designer of that game.
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Most multiplayer games are played in ways unintended by the devs because as time passes people share new methods they discover to be better at the game. Devs can't
possibly know how metagame will develop.

Aerosol · Aug 3, 2012

As long as these "new methods" aren't exploitative of flaws in game programming, they're cool.

Azu · Aug 3, 2012

"Look at all those Eggman's robots!"

This seems to be a genuine speed run.

Which main series Sonic game has the highest skill ceiling in speedrun

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