Which main series Sonic game has the highest skill ceiling in speedrun

I personally haven't bought enough of the modern games to say which game is best for speedrunning, but I do know that there's no way in hell I'm ever beating this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glfx6LBbbGY
or this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJAiujPkPmM

 

I'm thinking either 1 or 2 of the Adventure games. Seriously, look at the TAS of those, especially Adventure 2 with the bouncing technique.

 

Oh, yea I know that technique would probably never be realized in a unassisted speed run. I brought it up because Bulimic wanted to know which game had the highest technical ceiling, and I think that's pretty much the most technical maneuver when it comes to Sonic games.

I haven't been paying attention to Generations much lately, but with no TAS, I think it might come first however, with the M speed glitch being discovered and all.
Actually, scratch that. I'm thinking the advance games coming in a close second behind SA2 with Sonic's air dash maneuver.

 

Sonic The Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles

 

As far as I'm concerned, Sonic 1, 2, CD or 3K are the best. ESPECIALLY 3K (agreeing with the post above me) given Hyper Sonic (a newgame+ run has been made that uses Hyper Sonic through the whole game). In any of the classic titles, its possible to make an unbelievable run out of regular gameplay all the way to making runs that just glitch Sonic to the end of a stage within seconds, or anywhere in between. None of the modern games have yet to prove that amount of speedrunning potential, so in a technical way the classic titles have the highest feasible skill ceiling.

 

Sonic Unleashed. That game is all about memorization to the highest level. The classic games are good and speeddrunning is a challange but it's a totally different kettle of fish.

Also, one shouldn't mention TAS when talking about speedruns, TAS is all about exploiting glitches and beating the game in a way no human ever could.

 

Agreed on all points. Glitch abuses are for cunts and Sonic 1 does indeed have the highest skill-ceiling.

 

Signal boost on this.

Sonic 1 in particular is very technical and rewarding to speedrun. With 2/3/K the primary skill you'll have to learn is how to stop and spindash efficiently to get speed on as many sections as possible, the rest is pretty much secondary. In the first game, you'll be using a whole palette of tricks; loop-jumping (and double loop-jumps, which I can't yet do), apex jumps, downward curve jumps, 'freewheeling' (that is to say, letting the momentum propel Sonic instead of using the controller to run, beating the speed cap) -- a good run on even Green Hill Zone can be satisfying as hell, though on stages like Marble and Labyrinth Zone the technical ceiling rises to the point where you'll be overcoming the limitations of the layouts with every little trick you can muster for some speed. You'll be optimising jumps, taking advantage of every little nook and cranny you can spot that'll help out (for example, a jump at the beginning of Marble Zone 2 works much better if you hit Sonic's head on a lower part of the ceiling, affecting the arc).

Gawd I'm such a Sonic 1 fanboy. ^^;

 

Well, I am a fan of glitches. It's part of the fun. But if I had to take a guess, I'd say Sonic Unleashed simply because the stages seem so incredibly long and people take advantage of skipping sections where you use 3d in 2d and whatnot. That's not to say you don't do that in other games.

What I don't see often or much at all anymore is red shoes. They used to be pretty valuable.

 

Definitely Unleashed. Maybe I'm biased as the modern games are what got me into the speedrunning side of things and Generations can only be pushed so far.

The combination of snake-drifting, M-speed and SLJs required to pull of the best runs in Unleashed is mesmerizing to watch in motion.

 

Probably should have been specified lol.

 

Unleashed Day can't have the highest skill ceiling because there are less variables, since levels are so linear, and any speed runner can do the QTEs, so you won't be seeing the low path a lot.
However, Unleashed Night could be interesting since you can bounce off of ledges, skip sections and fight efficiently. Unfortunately, it isn't really a Sonic game.

 

The way I see it is that if the game lets you do it without any mods its okay. This way it isn't cheating because anyone with enough skill can do it with the original game. And if the game lets you do it I don't see it as bending the rules because I see the rules as being whatever the game allows you to do without cheating devices. Whether it is intended or not.
It's a speedrun, not a casual playthrough. Plus speenruns more or less require several casual playthroughs in order to learn what exactly is the best approach to speedrunning a particular level anyway.

 

Learning an exploit does not constitute skill.

Skill is the combined aptitudes for timing, reactions, perception, hazard navigation, pathfinding, et cetera. It's like my point with Sonic 1 versus 2/3/K -- simply learning to cleanly stop and spindash is not what I'd consider a skill versus the various abilities required to speedrun a Sonic 1 level.

 

I've always felt that Sonic Heroes has some of learning curve for Speed Runs, considering long long 90% of the levels are.


However, I'd say Sonic 3K for the highest Skill curve.