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Which feature of Sonic Frontiers wouldn't you want to see in the next game?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Gestalt, Oct 4, 2023.

Which feature of Sonic Frontiers wouldn't you want to see in the next game?

  1. Cyloop ability

    11 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. Open-Zone platforming, Cyberspace levels

    8 vote(s)
    14.5%
  3. Battle system, skill tree

    25 vote(s)
    45.5%
  4. Level-up system

    23 vote(s)
    41.8%
  5. Ancients, Kocos

    24 vote(s)
    43.6%
  6. Sage

    8 vote(s)
    14.5%
  7. Power Boost

    23 vote(s)
    41.8%
  8. Guardians

    12 vote(s)
    21.8%
  9. Super Sonic boss fights

    18 vote(s)
    32.7%
  10. Cyberspace missions

    11 vote(s)
    20.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Taylor

    Taylor

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    This forum will die for Sage.
     
  2. charcoal

    charcoal

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    I like how smartly using it lets you scale up things you couldn't with the boost or spinboost. Otherwise yeah its just okay, i dislike how its momentum doesnt carry into either your jump or run so its just a burst of speed with no momentum to it.
     
  3. KaiGCS

    KaiGCS

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    Just to clarify, I do want Cyberspace levels (or I guess to be more accurate, just regular ass levels), but I don't want the open-zone stuff or most of what came with it (skill tree, level-up system, etc).
     
  4. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    I just want more unique environments, more diverse and unique missions (rather than just "gather X"/"go to X"/the same exact puzzles across every island), and less jank. I think Frontiers is solid for a first draft and could really shine if given the proper care and iteration for a sequel. Whether that's the route Sonic Team's going to go down... that's a whole other question.
     
  5. Sneekie

    Sneekie

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    A difficult question, in part because you made some of the options have multiple answers. Like battle system and skill tree; I'm fine with the former but I don't particular care if the latter goes. I don't know why open zone platforming and Cyberspace were lumped but there probably isn't a lot of options in the poll.

    Of the poll, Ancients was an easy option: great lore, but we can move onto something else.

    I would say Cyberspace but the last update seriously kind of saved the entire idea singlehandedly.

    So the next best thing is Cyberspace missions or the Power Boost.

    Everything else can stay. I wouldn't mind most of these coming back.
     
  6. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    If we're going to for-SURE keep anything, it'd be what they learned from making cyberspace stages and apply that not only to future linear stages but the Open Zone areas as well. Turn everywhere into an organic playground, don't leave anywhere as featureless as Frontiers gets. Also, keep the Cyloop concept but find more practical uses for it.

    The rest of the gameplay stuff could go (or be heavily reworked), though. The battle system being streamlined / removing the skill-tree would be a big step up for me, as I feel the overfocus on combat / enemy encounters just gets in the way of what's most important in Sonic games (schmovin'), and I think having spam-energy-blast moves like the Sonic Boom is just overkill anyways. Keep combat if you must, but it needs a severe toning down. A leveling system also just centers on that and I'd prefer we didn't. And the Power Boost also gets in the way too, but I get the appeal, so I'm calling for a retooling of how it works more than a removal.

    The story-specific stuff I'd like to be done with, too. Blue Blood already made a great case on why overdoing the Super Sonic kaiju fights is a bad idea, and I have similar sentiments for seeing the Ancients/Koco/etc reappear. Let Frontiers be Frontiers; let the new game find it's own identity and if it's appropriate let story elements slide back in. I'll be okay with Sage returning if it means she takes a backseat / we get some background character moments.
     
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  7. Turbohog

    Turbohog

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    I think Sage is a terrible character, at least the way they wrote her and tried to make her Eggman's daughter. I have never laughed so hard at a Sonic game as I did during the "montage" of her and Eggman doing literally nothing while that weird sad song played.
     
  8. KaiGCS

    KaiGCS

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    Yeah... I really wanted to like Sage, she has a great design, but I don't like what she does to Eggman at all. And her entire character is defined by that relationship.
     
  9. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    I'll throw my lot in with Azoo and Blue Blood. Toss the story-centric elements, don't bother with the leveling, keep the explosive Super Sonic stuff in a box until you actually need it. The skill tree is pretty unintrusive, it can stay. And yeah, design the open zone like it's a Sonic level. You don't build a world and then figure out how to layer a level on top of that, you just build a level with how the player travels through it in mind. I'd be really interested to see a mod that actually replaces all the haphazard platform-spam with actual map geometry, though that'd probably be really time-consuming to make.

    Sage...I'm split on. I like her, I think it's good that she has an actual arc, and I like that she and Eggman actually like each other. At the same time...this isn't sustainable. Without significant changes to either her and Eggman, the dynamic is just gonna be weird after this game. I want to keep her around, don't get me wrong, but in order to remain a recurring character in the series, either they'd have to either reinvent Eggman (bad idea) or reinvent Sage (probably a better idea). I remember Johnny saying in his review "I don't know how they're going to keep Eggman as a villain after this", and I've thought about that. To push Eggman over to the good guys side would result in:
    A. Eggman is constantly under someone's supervision and making threats to go bad again, and knowing SEGA's recidivist nature, he probably would eventually.

    B. They invent a NEW version of Eggman to replace the old one, specifically to avoid scenario A. Which, I guess Eggman Nega could finally make a comeback for? But this is still dumb.

    By contrast, Sage is basically just someone who kinda-helps the heroes. It would be much better to twist her into a villain who loves fighting Sonic as much as her dad. I think there's a lot of charm in making her more enthusiastic and spunky, trying to act like Sonic's friend even as she's still trying to kill him. Give her an Eggman Empire outfit, too. Make her embarrass her dad by palling around with Sonic when he's trying to be serious. Her arc in Frontiers is fine, but she needs to become fun to keep going.

    EDIT: oh yeah, and I remember Kishimoto saying a while back that he'd like to try making a game without the boost. I think that's worthwhile. Lost World haters DNI
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2023
  10. Swifthom

    Swifthom

    A Friend Remembers... Member
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    The option I want isn't there.

    The thing Sonic Team get wrong are stupid design decisions that change gameplay style / expectations with no warning and automatically fail you for not understanding the non signposted gameplay switch.

    I.e.
    The QTE at the end of the final hard boss, which doesn't work like any QTE in the game before, but makes you replay an 8 minute long slog if you fail it.

    I managed to get roasted by people on twitter for pointing this out. I adore the fan base screaming 'git gud' when, having just beaten the game on hard difficulty, a QTE follows a difficult boss with no checkpoint.
    https://twitter.com/DistantSpires/status/1709590955748114650?t=pNDFdlLrlql7DmeiJdbedw&s=19

    I would remove things like the snake /final trial from the DLC having a timer that removes all freedom from gameplay styles.



    I would have the bosses signpost their attacks properly so that the moment you have to parry is not switched by their attack changing momentum moments before they hit you.


    I.e.
    The core game is brilliant.
    Hire some play testers to giver proper feedback and polish on the jack that will ruin your players day.


    And Sonic Team have a history of this going right back to the barrel In carnival night, and also the homing attack fiasco in the final boss of generations.
     
  11. Violet CLM

    Violet CLM

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  12. Chaos Rush

    Chaos Rush

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    Voted for Ancients/Koko’s. I don’t dislike them or anything, I found them reasonably interesting but the next game should be a new location and a new story. It would be very strange if they were shoehorned into every game from now on.
     
  13. The KKM

    The KKM

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    There's a specific use-case for the Drop Dash that I'm not sure was intended, or rather, am pretty sure it wasn't. It's extremely useful for traversal in Chaos Island.

    The ice atop the mountains in Chaos Island is a separate material that will make you slip and will automatically nullify boost, so you can't just force your way through and run it.
    The spindash is an altered boost, so it's also neutralised. Can't walk through the ice, can't run through the ice, can't spindash through the ice.

    ... The drop dash, somehow, slipped by as a separate property. You can drop dash through the ice.
     
  14. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    I admit I'm a bit surprised by the number of votes for Koco/Ancients. I'm not really in love with the story of them out anything, but to me is really feels like they're setting up for a sequel.

    The Final Horizon update in particular alludes to Ancients' home planet, the original location of the Emeralds. We also got to learn about the purposes of the various structures across the Starfall Islands, the fact that the Ancients had many underground highways on Earth and that their spaceships might yet exist at the bottom of the ocean. Then the are the two biggest and direct hooks; the first is the very existence of the Master Emerald that drew the Ancients to Earth in the first place, and the second is the "Zap" single which Sage explains was both worshipped like the mark of a God and is a real, observable phenomenon. If all of these plot threads go nowhere in the sequel, I'll be pretty shocked. Even though I don't like the "aliens" angle that they chose for the Ancients because of the repurcussions that it has for the Emeralds and Chaos, it would be really disappointing if it just got dropped.

    I think we'll be seeing a relatively direct sequel to Frontiers that follows the same story arc instead of starting a new one. But I don't think that means more time spent on the Starfall Islands, or necessarily a more active role from the Koco/Ancients.

    EDIT: There's also the exchange between Sonic and Sage, where Sonic wonders why all of the Titans are so different. Sage explains that there were five tribes in their original planet; one with powerful bodies, one with a tail instead of legs, one that walked on four legs, one with wings and finally one tribe with superior intelligence. These refer to Giganto, Wyvern, Knight, Supreme and the Chaos-like Ancients far we know respectively. Four of the five tribes perished to The End, and the Titans were constructed in their honour.

    It just seems like Sonic Team have put a lot into this lore. For it to be a one-and-done deal would be a let down.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2023
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  15. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    I think the people answering Kocos and Ancients weren't really thinking about that. You're not incorrect, but we only have vague hints about this stuff. The Ancients' god, the home planet, the source of the emeralds, all that stuff is potential energy, but when people are answering this poll, they're answering according to the game they actually played.

    But hey, I'm up for a spacefaring Sonic adventure, bonus points if they run into the Black Arms' homeworld or the Twilight Cage on the way.
     
  16. Gestalt

    Gestalt

    Sphinx in Chains Member
    If had to choose between

    "It was all just a dream." / "It was me all along, you fool!"

    and

    "The End 2" / "Did you know ancients loved chilli dogs, too?"

    I think the first one would be more interesting.

    Let's wait and see how all this pans out.
     
  17. Circlestar

    Circlestar

    SS Rank Tricks! Member
    When the platforming in the open-zones doesn't hold your hand with automation I really enjoy it. The platforming they added with the new Kocos has been fun.

    What I really don't like is the random dash pads and springs that only exist to guide you into a platforming section and take control away from you. Chaos island onwards is really bad for that and they even put them inside of those treasure markers. You get used to only finding memory tokens, keys and gears inside them with the first couple of islands, then suddenly half of them have springs and dash pads accompanied with that sound effect :argh:
     
  18. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    A big thing for me would be taking some cues from Bowser's Fury in terms of world design. Instead of three moderately-sized islands, do one big one with a bunch of different biomes, each with its own unique platforming challenges and mechanics. I think it'd help give the Frontiers style a bit more structure and would allow them to keep the traditional platforming levels without sectioning them off as glorified special stages.

    ok so they definitely already did take some cues but still
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  19. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    But what other way to think about it? I'm honestly asking, because I'm drawing a blank. The Koco and Ancients are a plot element, one that's yet to be fully developed.

    According to the game I played, there's an unfinished plot.
     
  20. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    It's *more* unresolved now with the Final Horizon, but ultimately we've seen a lot of gooey jello chaos people and little emoticon rocks the past year. We've done a lot of exploring ruins of a past society and speculating on their actions. Yes, we now know that there is intrigue in their homeworld and their god, but if someone got their fill before now, those may not be immediately convincing when these other elements only exist as potential.

    Frankly, I find some of the individual Koco stories compelling in how they thematically relate to the characters we're actually following in the series, but we've all seen Chaos Emerald-bearing civilizations wiped out by all-powerful deities leaving ruins for Sonic to pick up the pieces of. It's only an interesting idea once we have substance to make it interesting. And I'm on board for that! I enjoy Frontiers' handling of those elements and I don't think Flynn would want to wallow in the stuff he already established, but that's based on my faith in a writer I like, not a huge mystery presented by the text itself.