When you roll and then jump in the Genesis/Megadrive versions, you hav

I don't think there's much reason behind it. I think it's just a move that the physics allows, and they just gave it a name. Why they haven't used the Sonic CD approach? Good question, could it even have been something of consideration? I'm not as knowledgeable as you guys in regards to history and tech stuff, but I'm assuming Sonic CD is running on a slightly different engine than the classics. Also, wasn't Sonic CD in development around the time of Sonic 3? That'd answer why Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles aren't using the ability to where you can control the trajectory as you spin and jump.

Also, in regards to the Advance games, I'm assuming they looked more towards the Genesis classics for their engine, than Sonic CD.

 

I would guess its the same in the Advance games because modern Sonic Team was scared to modify anything (seeing as they're now soulless nimrods that lack any insight or vision whatsoever), they just tried to copy the original game physics without even thinking about it. Obviously today they have said ah to hell with everything.

At the same time, Sonic CD felt like it branched off from the series a little. Look at the spindash in Sonic CD, it was quite different from Sonic 2, even though Sonic 2 came out first. It looks like they took some liberties in the game design, and for whatever reason Sonic 3 just kept to its own continuation blind of Sonic CD.

Now if you ask me, the game feature I never understood that wasn't in the other games, was that move ONLY featured in Sonic Triple Trouble, allowing you to go into a spin while in mid air. This seriously should have been adapted to the 16 bit games, it was extremely useful and would've made the combos considerably more fun. I am really glad it was built into Sonic Megamix, thank god those guys have an eye for everything that made the Sonic games good.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, regardless of the Sonic Team logo on the game, the advance series is made by Dimps.

 

I would assume its due to physics.

When something is moving in one direction with momentum, an opposite force must be applied to reverse direction.

When Sonic is spinning in the air, he has no way to counter his momentum, and thus becomes uncontrollable in the air.

On the ground, this isn't really an issue as he can use ground friction to stop and reverse direction, but in the air he has no such counter force.

Sonic CD seems to get this wrong, as Sonic can move in the air, but their is no reason to why he can suddenly move in the air from previous games.

I could see him using some super fast spin to change the air currents and allow him to alter his direction, but that isn't used in Sonic CD, or ANY other game for that matter.

So...is Sonic CD in the wrong or the right here?

 

I wouldn't say either. It just evolved in a different way.

 

Ah shit you're probably right.

Its not like the physics in Sonic games, let alone most platformers, are realistic. What makes them fun and intuitive is their compromise of realism for human entertainment. You can't argue the move shouldn't be allowed because it would never work in real life. Granted, Sonic tries to hold true to many specific things, but otherwise I promote adding this minor leverage for the player's benefit since its otherwise a frustrating hindrance.

 

I think I'll post a quote of mine and Deef's from the Sonic Fan Remix topic:

I know I prefer the MD control version, even though I'm a big Sonic CD fan.

 

Well in Sonic 1, 2, 3&K and CD Sonic can control his movement (left or right) while falling after running off a ledge so doing the exact same thing while spinning makes just as much sense in Sonic's world. While it is handy to control Sonic after a Spin Dash or Roll jump I don't really care to be honest as long as Sonic games have 'good' physics.

 

I'd say the rolling jump is intentional, because when you think about it... when Sonic's spinning that fast from a roll, how's he meant to know where he's going? :P

Seriously though, it's probably just a way of balancing the gameplay. I can see it being changed in Sonic CD possibly due to the more vertical and dense level design.

 

To my knowledge, it's a straight mod of Sonic 1's engine, so it would have to have been intentionally removed.

I remember Ohshima saying that with Sonic CD he wanted to "beat" Sonic 3, but it was also in development during Sonic 2's creation. I guess it had a long development cycle.

This can't be it, because Sonic can normally control himself in the air, while spinning or otherwise, as long he wasn't rolling when he jumped.

My only rationalisation for the phenomenon is this: Sonic can't see properly while he's spinning, so if he jumps while spinning he has no idea where he's going when he starts his jump. This seems kind of lame, though.

 

Isn't this logic saying that you prefer broken controls than relying on platforming for the challenge? This is also speculation with what you say here. I have to agree with LOst that it would be great to know the real reason behind it, but I don't expect it to be anything like a decision to balance the game, just a case of separate ideas to fine tune the physics. I can only speculate that we would have seen Sonic CD features like control over the ground spin jump (and that shit camera mode) in Sonic 2, 3 & K if the Sonic Team had not split up.

 

I see it like this.

The Sonic CD guys had the S1 source, and heavily modified it. When they were going through things, fixin' shit, they came across the roll thing and thought to themselves "Hmm, this must be a bug" and 'fixed' it. Whereas the Sonic 2 guys were maxin', chillin', playin' some b-ball doing shit and thought "Hmm, this must be intentional behaviour" and so they kept the roll behaviour. The guys for Sonic 3 then thought "Hmm, this was in the last two main games, thus we shall do the same" and there you go.

Pure speculation, however!

 

The physics in Sonic CD are different? I never knew that.

I'm having a hard time grasping the different physics though... so when you jump from a roll you have control over it?

 

As far as Sonic 2 and onwards are concerned, I remember the horizontal lock was intentionally inserted when jumping from a roll because:

When rolling, Sonic can achieve a much faster speed than his top speed, and, while there's no speed cap when on ground, there is still a speed cap when on air, so locking the input when on air would prevent a sudden momentum cut, since it's assumed that when one rolls is because one wants to keep a breaking-neck speed, therefore it would make sense to block the horizontal input when jumping from a roll because it was the easier way to counter the limitation that them, themselves, put in the game engine, thus allowing the player to keep the previous speed.

And from this standpoint, it would also make sense for Sonic 1, too; locking the horizontal input to prevent speed cap from activating. Even though it has a speed cap even when on ground.

If I'm not mistaken, something along those lines where written in the brazilian manual of Sonic 2 (minus the engine limitations thing), but I can't be bothered to check right now. But I remember I read it in something that was Sonic 2 related; or it was the manual, or it was a magazine.

 

This isn't entirely related, but a fun fact of the original Sonic games is you can't roll up if you're holding left or right. So in order to roll you have to let go of the direction you're holding. This probably contributed to why the rolling felt so borked in Sonic 4 for classic peeps, since you have to do the exact OPPOSITE in order to make sure the momentum doesn't stop dead.