don't click here

What would you do if you were in charge of the Sonic franchise?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Hoiyoihoi, Dec 26, 2024.

  1. Hoiyoihoi

    Hoiyoihoi

    Member
    103
    59
    28
    Just a silly thread idea inspired by the most recent Pariah video. Not super serious, just thought it'd make for an interesting thought experiment. Sega is well known for their baffling decisions, and in pretty much every single discussion someone brings up what the "ideal" version of sonic is anyway. Most of the frequent posters here already make their opinions known about the series, but now it can be all in one place.

    So, say that today, sega suddenly put you in charge of the sonic franchise, how do you handle it? You can talk about lore, characterization, games, comics, whatever.

    This is not an alternate timeline scenario, you gain control of the Sonic franchise as it is today. Also, realistically, the sonic series is in the state that is in due to mandates from sega higher-up and would be out of the hands of just the series director but we can ignore that and just focus on ideal visions.

    Here's my own:

    I have stated before, I think the closest franchise to what I see sonic being is One Piece. Cool characters going to wacky places, suitable for children but occasionally gets violent/dark.

    I find it confusing how, as the modern series aims for a younger demographic, it tells less serious stories with less connection to previous games. If the multiple 5 hour long analyses of Five Nights at Freddy's has taught me anything, children yearn for the lore. When I played sonic as a kid, that was honestly was separated sonic in my mind from other platformers, sonic games had stories and arcs and little plot details sprinkled throughout the levels. But the series currently, kind of makes the lore unsatisfying to learn about. Sure, it's there. You can read up on it, and spend quite a lot of time doing so. But a lot of it is either boring, self contradictory, or requires a bit of headcanoning. So instead of writing a dozen different retcons, I'd just go full series reboot. start the series over from scratch and reintroduce every character and detail over again, tweaked so that they can fit in a more cohesive setting.

    Inspired by Fire Emblem Heroes, I'd make a new mobile game that gets perpetually updated, and sort of acts like a "bridge" between games. It wouldn't be exactly canonical, it's main goal would just be to keep characters and ideas relevant. The random characters that dont have a spot in the main games get to go in the mobile one, where they can potentially build a fan base and popularity. This would be an autorunner, but unlike sonic runners it would have 2d graphics so that it can be updated more quickly. I'm thinking seasonal updates and every character has like 50 skins. I wouldn't even mind if it had a chibi artstyle like Heroes.

    I don't agree with Pariah's take of having the Classic and Modern series permanently split into their own separate things, I feel like having two different series running at the same time made by the same people but slightly different and any element arbitrarily introduced in one after 1998 can't appear in the other just feel like a waste of resources. Classic is gone, the 2d games just use the modern artstyle like the advanced and rush games, and characters and ideas are free to swap between the two styles. Yeah, I would put Sage in Mania 2.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2024
  2. sayonararobocop

    sayonararobocop

    Member
    345
    122
    43
    I think reboot is the right call, and I'd try to get some of the secret sauce from the films that works (not blue arms, but Sonic being adorable and having a strong emotional core to the main cast)
     
  3. RDNexus

    RDNexus

    Member
    Glad to know some people here think alike me.
    Sonic also got me going HARD as a kid because it had stuff that fed my curiosity other than mere gameplay (unlike other, simpler games).
    Hence why I felt sad when, from Sonic Heroes onwards, the franchise started to lose steam on the continuity front, until this day (sorta).

    If I had any decision power within the franchise, I'd go HARD reboot on the gameverse.
    Comics, live movies, etc could remain as is, they got their pros and cons but also their power and charm over the fanbase (with how varied it is nowadays).

    Regarding the gameverse, I'd try to work with the lore team to get ALL relevant lore, worldbuilding, plot and cast details outlined (even details from the movieverse) and how each new game could be kinda self-contained plot-wise while feeding the following installments and the series as a whole.
    If the games were to go for years again, it'd be wiser to work on them anime-style, with each game exploring and/or developing 1/2 characters top, while balancing plot, worldbuilding, lore and fine gameplay and cinematics. Shadow Generations just proved the world Sonic games CAN have such quality again, in many fronts.

    The idea of having a side-dish to work on not-main cast also seems fine and dandy, as long as it had a decent writing team to keep it appealing and fresh to the fanbase.
    Heck, with such idea, in due time new characters might end up born, some of them maybe even brought into the mainline games.

    I know quite well how polarizing and war-inducing such approaches could be for the fanbase, but at some point in time it may end up happening.
    SEGA can't just focus on the younger demographic, they still have TONS of veterans awaiting a true blue return to the franchise's former glory...
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2024
  4. Wraith

    Wraith

    Member
    405
    233
    43
    These are all writing tweaks and I don't think lore is actually this huge problem that's hurting the Sonic series so I'd mostly leave that alone. Every time someone suggests a continuity reboot for such a simple and accessible series I wince a little bit. It's missing the forest for the trees. Most people don't care that Tails's character is slightly inconsistent in one scene in one game or that all the details about the macguffin plot gems don't line up or whatever. You have an established base that likes your characters fine, kids like them too, just leave it.

    The only thing I would do here is encourage the team to include more new characters in their games, not less. I think the Sonic cast is fine but mostly bled dry in terms of story, they're selling themselves short keeping the core cast to characters they introduced in 2006 and not going much further. They obviously have more demographics and trends they want to cover now, so introducing more new characters instead of trying to change old ones is the way, I think. Basically: Trip and Sage were good ideas, keep doing stuff like that. Give Sonic at least one new ally per game and focus on developing that character and their relationship with your main character(Sonic). More Storybook series type scenarios and less Frontiers style arc rehashes. The core of a Sonic story should be going to a new place, uncovering some new corner of the world and having a new experience.


    There are two main things I think the series needs: An aesthetic and mechanical overhaul. An aesthetic overhaul doesn't necessitate new designs, just a livelier style more representative of the 2D art Sonic has always looked the best in. This would be a huge undertaking in one game to get everything in place but once it's done there wouldn't be any significant artstyle shifts after. Basically make a game or two with enough of the series core aesthetic established that you can just reuse material from it for spinoffs for years and years. I talked about what I think the art shift in question should be.

    The big thing is mechanical integrity though. Hashimoto and Utsumi seem to find it regrettable that Sonic games don't resonate all that much with mainstream gaming communities, and the big reason for that is the mechanics. Even in 'stronger' 3D Sonic rock solid gameplay isn't a highlight, which isn't really permissible for a gameplay focused series. Armored Core and Zelda are series that have a storytelling/lore focus, but this is all to supplement their core gameplay which is rooted in concepts introduced in their debut games. Sonic games, by comparison, have no consistency or reliability in terms of the experience here. To be a Sonic fan, you have to be willing to put up with inconsistent gameplay to engage with the characters and world, which have niche appeal. This, imo, is an incredibly backwards pitch for a gameplay focused series. If you want to go wider, the gameplay has to be as widely appealing as it was in '92.

    So I think, despite not thinking a continuity reboot or a shift away from Sonic's modern design is necessary, that Sonic needs to go as far back to it's platforming loops as it can and stay there. Reduce the focus on cinematics, minimal combat unless it interacts with movement in an engaging way, keep the RPG mechanics to an absolute minimum. Make a great momentum based 3D platforming video game with a strong focus on level design and only that. Once you do it, keep making games like that until we're all dead. If you stray from the new core, do it in a way that compliments established gameplay instead of taking away from it. You can wrap whatever shonen anime tropes around this that you want as long as you stay true to the core. I don't think everything Frontiers introduced needs to be thrown out for this to work. I'd be fine with an open zone format if the emphasis was on platforming with the distractions to a minimum.


    Should classic Sonic still be a thing? Gonna be frank, unless the experience you offer is as good as Sonic 2 and 3, games you can already get for a couple dollars on every digital store, don't bother. That goes for 2D Sonic in general. It's always going to put up disappointing numbers unless you put your foot down and decide to actually compete with yourself instead of pretending the prior 2D games don't exist. Superstars was a terrible value proposition for 60 dollars in the face of what was on offer not just from Sonic but other games at the time. Their entire attitude here needs to be re-examined. Either low-ball it and focus on small, quality experiences like Mania that can exist alongside the old games, or actually take a swing at Super Mario Wonder/Rayman Origins levels of quality. No half measures.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2024
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  5. Hoiyoihoi

    Hoiyoihoi

    Member
    103
    59
    28
    Yeah, as much as I personally am invested in the ongoing story of the series, these two are the definite top priorities.
    Have you ever read the artbook they released for super mario odyssey? You can see so much back and forth between the developers on how to design mario. They have notes like "How shiny should his buttons be?" "Is it even possible for denim to be this blue?" "How fat should his ass be?" (reading the director tell the artist to not give mario an ass was very funny), and this is mario were talking about, he's had the same design for 30 years and they STILL put this much effort into his appearance. Compared to the sonic series, which is happy to reuse models from the wii era still. I'm still not entirely sure what the green things on knuckles' shoes are supposed to me. Not that every detail needs to be thought out in depth, or that things need to be 'realistic', just that it shows that the character's model it made to fit the needs of the game being worked on.

    As far as art style goes, I support making the games look more like uekawa's 2d artwork, but another source of inspiration I would draw from is 80's japanese city pop art, like the works of Hiroshi Nagai. The bright flat colors, the palm trees and foliage juxtaposed to bright cityscapes in the distance, the relaxing "coolness" of it, I feel like it would fit Sonic really well. Like, it makes me think that this is what the genesis games WOULD like like if not for technical limitations.

    In terms of gameplay- I kinda just want a sonic game where I can curl into a ball and if i slightly nudge the control stick I roll really slowly. Your point that sonic fans have to put up with inconsistent gameplay just to engage with characters they are invested in is true though. It's kind of a joke that sonic tends to copy mechanics from Legend of Zelda; like WW/Rush Adventure, TP/Unleashed, and BotW/Frontiers. But I think looking at why one works and the other doesn't (or at least, doesn't work as well) can tell a lot about how the series direction of sonic can be improved. Zelda has a series of core mechanics that can be added to without detracting from the fundamental essence, Meanwhile in sonic these gimmicks require rapid gameplay shifts, minigames, or dont interact with the core mechanics enough.

    While it's a little generic to just say "bring back the adventure gameplay", having actual momentum that interacts with level geometry would do a lot to fix these problems. Looking at games like celeste, its a lot easier to make mechanics that interact with momentum than a bunch of bespoke level gimmicks. Idk im kinda thinking about those marble rolling games from the early 2000's.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  6. Technically Inept

    Technically Inept

    Least Jaded Sonic Fan Member
    462
    141
    43
    If you ask me there is no winning here.

    I find I tend to agree with Pariah on many things. Honestly, I found it quite amusing when I stumbled across the channel and saw just how much so. And this video is sort of included in that. I agree with a lot of stuff said in it…

    I just don’t think it would actually hold up in practice.

    That is…

    way too many resources split way too many ways. Resources I don’t think Sonic has. What is more, I don’t think these proposed branches have enough widespread appeal individually to actually be viable options to pursue.

    In an ideal world where development of media cost nothing, yes. Absolutely do what he said there. Stop trying to freaking appeal to everyone in one product as that’s never going to work to everyone’s satisfaction, and just give people what they freaking want. What they actually want without compromises and unwelcome additions.

    But we don’t live in that world.

    If I’m going to be completely honest with you, I think Sonic should stop being pushed as a big thing. Stop with trying to make big titles on a tiny budget, and start making stuff that you can actually make that appeals to the different audiences you built up but isn’t such a sunk cost that it poses significant risk.

    Or…

    while this isn’t what I’d do, as I am CEO and I want money, but another thing that I as a consumer would want is for the copyright to Sonic or whatever it is called to just die, and anyone can make anything out of Sonic they want and sell it.

    I can buy Sonic Robo Blast 2 this way, dude. Give them money.

    Sonic…

    there is so, so, SO many problems and issues the ENTIRETY of this franchise has. And I would say not just in the storytelling front. I am talking gameplay as well. While Pariah doesn’t want a from the start reboot, I kinda’ do. Just restart everything and just focus on making good stuff is also an option.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2024
  7. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

    Oldbie
    1,438
    1,344
    93
    Reboots don't matter if the reboot just gives us another Sonic Boom project that's abandoned within 2 years.

    In fact, you can often end up with the exact same problems when a reboot means you just reference and reinvent old ideas all over again and just end up hitting all the same nostalgia bait anyway, arguably in ways that could be worse than the old versions. It's subjective and can sometimes miss the point.

    I'm not saying a reboot wouldn't work, but rather it won't matter if you don't create an amazing game world to support it, and you can do that by just sending Sonic to some Island or continent he's never been before. Sonic's character does vary a bit between continuities and writers, but he's based off of a simple idea and evolves with the time just like most western comic book heroes. Plus then you get a whole bunch of fans angry about it "not" being in the same universe as the old games, which isn't itself a problem per-se, but does create a lot of branding issues.

    Sonic Frontiers functioned as a "reboot" as much as any full on proper reboot would. It's a self contained story involving a core cast of characters, with new characters added, in a brand new location, with a handful of references to old ideas. A reboot would effectively be the exact same thing. There's barely a difference between a script that mentions old games, and characters that make references to old ideas in a new continuity. It's the same damn thing in the end, honestly.

    Instead, we should look at what Frontiers did right... it was popular because it was fun and accessible on its own merits, and had fairly decent (but still not perfect) gameplay and solid presentation. It's not perfect, but sold solidly anyway. Sonic X Shadow Generations is also selling well despite being quite lore heavy, but it explains the lore well within its own story world, so it doesn't really matter much either, and that's despite it being only half of a new game in a larger package.
     
  8. Snub-n0zeMunkey

    Snub-n0zeMunkey

    yo what up Member
    891
    970
    93
    I'm a big believer that the series could do with a visual refresh and I'd love to see them bring the models closer to the 2D artwork, but my big worry is that they'll go in the opposite direction and try to make them look like the movie counterparts. To me this is the worst case scenario because I thought Shadow's movie model in the Shadow Gens DLC was ugly as hell I can't lie. Slapping fur textures on cartoon characters just never looks good and the texture they had in Frontiers looked really weird up close.
     
  9. Palas

    Palas

    Don't lose your temper so quickly. Member
    1,331
    962
    93
    Personal preferences aside... what is there to change, really? The franchise is in the best state it's been in decades, financially. I see more kids wearing Sonic shirts and sneakers than ever, even more than when I was a child. The series has a healthy transmedia environment: even if we don't get any more movies, we have cartoons, comics -- new material all the time. Even if it's overwhelming to take all the Sonic universe in at once, you can more or less consume -- and, most importantly, create within -- the stuff you're given pretty easily. In absolute terms, Sonic is the biggest it's ever been. It's pointing towards a timeless, if a little bit quieter presence like Sesame Street. And that's... great?

    Because other than that, Pariah introduces his video saying "if I had the power here's what I'd do with the Sonic franchise that might please the community and maybe sell well" but like. You do have the power. SEGA is pretty lenient about that. You can make fangames, you can make and distribute your own material. Your vision for the franchise can be realized today and, if it aligns with whatever they're thinking in HQ, it may happen in an official capacity, even.

    And that, I think, is more important than anything else. If we're gonna play like that, I just want Sonic to be more accessible. I want Sonic to go public domain. That's about it.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  10. MH MD

    MH MD

    Member
    832
    634
    93
    I would just focus on making Frontiers 2 the kind of "super game" that SEGA is chasing

    building on Frontiers obviously, but for example includes Riders in it, sonic meeting Jet and deciding, why not, we will race with extreme gears , with lot of courses, either through the open zones or unique courses, basically make Riders 4 , since they wouldn't bother making an actual new riders game, this is an easy way to sell it, make regular updates and add new courses to it if you want, this is the big one but maybe offers other dead branches of the franchise in this way.

    Also makes Frontiers 2 a real live service game, a suggestion that will make people wince here but would probably attracts lot of audience, and i mean in the way Frontiers 1 already did, make updates that add new content regularly, new regions every now and then, sorta a genshin-like, but a platformer game, there is nothing like it so the potential gain is huge
     
  11. Battons

    Battons

    Shining Force Fan Member
    If I was in charge I’d just be that gif of King Homer laughing while changing absolutely nothing about the series.
     
  12. Yash

    Yash

    CHOCOLATE! Member
    805
    372
    63
    Probably put the series on a permanent rotation of new 3D game, new 2D game, new racing game every year. I think this is basically what Sega wants to do anyway to keep it as an annualized franchise, but I would make sure that's formalized. Can augment that with remakes and remasters as needed. Ensures each game has at least a 3-year dev cycle.

    Give the 3D Sonic Team way more money, no more penny-pinching like with Frontiers. Lock Artoon (or whatever their name is now) in as the go-to 2D dev, hire Christian Whitehead or Simon Thomley as a supervisor.

    Comics, movies, shows etc. all seem fine? Just keep doing what you're doing, fellas. I'd probably revisit some of the infamous Sega "mandates" if I truly had that power.

    So yeah, I guess I wouldn't change much!
     
  13. doc eggfan

    doc eggfan

    Are you pondering what I'm pondering? Wiki Sysop
    9,774
    295
    63
    ACT
    GreatMegaLD, GreatSC3k, Great SG1k
    There probably should be a game that ties in with the universe of the movie franchise (as I have PTSD flashbacks of Street_Fighter:_The_Movie: The Game). I can imagine the best way to do this could be to get Lego on board and do something similar to Lego Star Wars.

    Another thing that would be amazing would be to consider the possibility of a cross-over event like Capcom vs SNK, but with Sonic and Mario in a new platforming game. Can you even begin to imagine what the result could be if Nintendo EPD did the art and design for the Sonic levels, and Sonic Team did the art and design for the Mario levels?
     
  14. Iko MattOrr

    Iko MattOrr

    Member
    59
    26
    18
    Beside the fact that the series is currently doing pretty well, and being in control of a franchise is much more complex than just rebooting the lore and maybe fix a couple of gameplay issues (and I have absolutely no competence in brand management):

    I would regularly release 2D games, one each 2 years at most, maybe 3 if it really takes long. The Classic and Modern division would only exist on the presentation side, no more "sonic of the past", Classic Sonic is just a different art style and classic-themed games can include modern content. I would produce a 2D game with the classic style that includes characters such as Shadow, Blaze, etc. and make it a big deal as a marketing gimmick, that's a classic game set in the modern timeline.

    I would focus a lot more on gameplay: the games should play well and have good level design, the quality standards should be higher no matter what. The games should attempt to include elements from all across the series in a way so that no fan will feel excluded; what I mean is, the gameplay should offer moments that are designed to be enjoyed by classic fans, and moments that are for the modern audience, coexisting. Think of how New Super Mario Bros is based off Super Mario Bros 1, but it includes elements from Mario Bros 3, World and especially 64 (triple jump, ground pound, etc). I would push the series in a direction that would attempt to satisfy everyone at once, not one fraction of the fanbase every 10 years. If mixing everything together doesn't work and the purists will never like it, I would simply ignore the purists; I want the series to be an evolution of the past, not a selection of only the small amount of things that the most vocal part of the fanbase ask for.

    Characters!
    The characters should be a bigger emphasis than they currently are. I don't mean story and personality, I mean, as mascots and as gameplay tools. This series has some of the most unique looking designs, they are beloved and carry a big part of the overall appeal of the series itself.

    I would completely screw the concept of "the main four, Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy", I think it's limiting and boring. Characters should be included in games in a similar way as how Kirby uses the abilities: each character would represent a specific set of skills, and a different way to experience the game. Every game shoud at least include a decent amount of playable characters, depending on what makes sense for each scenario, and if they don't fit the story, they will still be playable as an extra, in a separated mode. I would put a big effort into designing each character's gameplay and balance it with the others, leaving the possibility of a multiplayer mode open, where multiple characters play the same level at the same time. I would be very hesitant at introducing new "anthro" characters, because the more they are, the harder it is to keep them alive, and we know that people love them and want them to return (to keep the games fresh I would instead use new one offs that have more unique designs like Chip or Sage/the titans, and are never meant to be playable).

    Sonic would be the default gameplay and include moves that help to build momentum up more easily; Tails would be all about air tricks and mobility; Knuckles would be about smashing obstacles and giving the feedback of controlling a powerhouse; Blaze would integrate some boost mechanics to represent Rush's gameplay style (given that the boost is not a main gimmick anymore); Silver would play by grabbing elements from the level and using them as tools; Cream... seriously, let Cheese shapeshift and have unique powers depending on the animals he copies, plus have a focus on mario-like jumping because it fits the bunny theme; Shadow would be all about reality warping, with teleport moves and skills that mess with the physics, like being able to hover on the water's surface with his rocket shoes; Amy would be about acrobatics and melee combat, in a way so that the hammer would also double as mobility options like in Advance 1... etc.

    The stronger a character's gameplay identity is, the higher chances it has to be playable in a new game. If necessary, I would even change the status quo in order to make some of those characters more accessible without having to explain every time (example, Blazes gives up on being a princess and leaves the kingdom to someone else, moves to Sonic's world permanently). Story and lore should always be secondary to gameplay and content (this doesn't mean that a game can't have a good story, just that the story has to adapt to gameplay and content, and not the other way).

    With "classic" and "modern" gone, I would experiment with the artstyle, and eventually redesign the characters' appearances multiple times in order to fit the style of each specific game. In general the series would always keep the surreal feel that the classics and some modern games had, and the inspiration from hip hop art for the character designs.

    A lore team is fine as a way to keep track of the most obscure details of the series, but the decisions should be taken internally by the core of Sonic Team. The lore team shouldn't be able to take decisions, because there might be bias due to some members being also fans of the series and having their own vision.

    I'm not sure what else I would do except being more careful with music's property and not wasting 5 years of development on a graphics engine. Maybe I'd have more control on those scammy mobile games and either order the developers to make them more fair/ethic for the sake of the franchise's image, or outright discontinue them, no matter how good they are as a money farm.
     
  15. Spookss

    Spookss

    Don't ask me to repeat, cause idek what I said. Member
    Spite the long in depth answers received, mine is quite simple:

    Listen to what people want.
    (and appeal to a wider demographic other than children, bring back Sonic's aura if you will)

    Not a perfect answer.
     
  16. Fadaway

    Fadaway

    Member
    465
    148
    43
    Sega arcade platformer with Amy Rose, Ristar, Big the Cat, Tika Sumpter & Sonic. With lots of nudity. Directed by Jon Waters.
     
  17. ScarryGirl

    ScarryGirl

    Member
    4
    0
    1
    I’m going to try to be realistic but I know a lot of this is unlikely to ever occur, especially some of the stuff down below. I’m just throwing my hat in for the fun of it and pitching what I would do if I were give the reins to this franchise.


    First of all, I don’t think the series needs a “hard reboot” or anything like that. Actually, given all the stuff introduced in recent games that fans love like Sage and Shadow’s character development in Shadow Gens, I think this would actually not be a great choice for the brand to go with. However, there is one thing I would like to retcon. Split timeline theory is canonized, and all Classic Sonic material released after Generations is in its own distinct timeline. That way, if they ever want to revisit Classic Sonic, they don’t need to worry about placing it on the timeline at some point before Adventure. Maybe I’d rename Classic Sonic since the version that’d show up in newer Classic outings no longer grows into the Modern we know, but not "Mega Sonic" since that just doesn't land for me personally. Maybe Legacy Sonic would work, and any newer games focusing on him would be part of the “Legacy Timeline”.


    After that, for Modern I’d ask for both Adventure games to be made, 1+2, Crash N.Sane Trilogy style with them bundled together. I don’t think they need to be rewritten (unless there’s anything in the localized script I’m unaware of that’s too unfaithful to the Japanese version, that can change) but the gameplay DOES need a bit of a revision. Big in general is getting overhauled, no more fishing, so maybe that would require rewrites but that’s about it. A lot of work would be put into recreating the physics of the Adventure games and then fine tuning them to make the gameplay more enjoyable. I also think making brand new models for this game rather than using the same ones they’ve been using for nearly 20 years with Shadow 05 would be nice, and of course the voice work would be redone to fit the Modern cast. Some online functionality with the Chao Garden and Battle Mode, maybe some unlockable costumes for the characters, a Collection Room like Generations, and we’re done!


    Future Modern games will follow this Adventure-like formula. I don’t think concepts like Open Zone should be abandoned, in fact I think they have tons of potential! But maybe revisit them once we’re confident in a gameplay formula and mechanics we can STICK to, rather than drastically changing all of it up a few games later or so. Sadly for boost fans, that’s going out the window. We’re going back to momentum. No matter what, though, I WON’T rush these games. If they need time to cook, give it a few years with an expandable budget, then we’ll give it to Sonic Team. They would have all hands on deck with this game as their top priority, which will be the standard for Sonic in the future.


    Spinoffs will be handled by other teams like Sega Hardlight and Rovio. Maybe get Dimps back on board to make some new 2D Sonic games while Sonic Team works solely on the next 3D outing. They don’t need to be super big, just smaller platformer experiences that won’t cost much in price but will satiate fans while waiting for the next big 3D Adventure. I don’t think Legacy Sonic needs more 2D platformers like Mania and Superstars, but maybe spinoff material with it could work. Maybe a new Riders game? I always thought Sonic tackling the Pro Skater formula would be interesting, or a Dragon Ball FigherZ type game. Hell, weird pitch, but maybe a game that’s a blend of Rocket League and the Mario Strikers games, only with Sonic rather than Mario. Hey, I think it could work, these characters are used to rolling around at fast speeds in balls anyways.


    Keep in mind, this is just what I have in mind for the GAMES. I have a few other ideas for external media. An animated show made by Flying Bark Studios that adapts elements from the games and IDW comics would be sweet! Or if we want to get more out there, an X-Men ‘97 esque revival of Sonic SatAM that can wrap up the storyline that the show set out to finish. Speaking of IDW, that's its own canon now, though I’m up for IDW characters appearing in the games like Whisper, Tangle, Surge, and Starline, they’d just be introduced as new characters to that continuity. I actually like a lot of Flynn’s ideas too, like Sticks being canonized as guarding the Master Emerald whenever Knuckles is away or versions of the Freedom Fighters for the IDW comics which, since those are no longer canon, they can have now! Overall, I hope I managed to get across my points in a clear and concise way, or at least managed to somewhat get my vision across.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2024
  18. Vertette

    Vertette

    Member
    477
    274
    63
    I could keep going about this subject for hours so I'll just keep it short. I'll try to tackle this from the point of view of a director who likes Sonic but still wants to earn money.

    There should probably be a more consistent schedule if Sega is gonna push Sonic harder again. I like that 3D, 2D and spin-off idea brought up before though I dunno if a yearly Sonic game is needed. Maybe throw in a remake or port sometimes, but don't ever let it get to SCU-level again.

    Sonic Frontiers 2 -
    The first one was well-liked but a lot of that was due to its novelty. Running around a big map as Sonic is fun but the sequel needs to be more unique if they want it to catch on again, don't do the Spider-Man 2 thing where the improvements aren't big enough to justify another 60-70 dollar game. Remove the huge focus on collecting and other Ubisoft-like mechanics, give it some more Sonic-esque visuals and gameplay mechanics like helping out travellers in need, saving villages from large waves of Eggman robots, races with NPCs, fighting giant Eggman's robots once in a while, that kinda thing. Basically a "mysterious drifter saving people" simulator but with Sonic's moveset, it would be novel and unique. Speaking of, Sonic's moveset could use some more versatility - replace sliding with rolling, crouching with spin dashing and give spin dashing and boosting their own pros and cons, yada yada. If we want this to stand out we really need to lean into what makes Sonic unique and what he could bring to an open world game.

    Sonic Mania 2 -
    Because people keep asking for it, and Evening Star and Headcannon could really use the money. Keep the 2D pixel art look because it's cheap and unique (for a big publisher) and give them the freedom, budget and time to make it all original zones, maybe let them think of some proper gimmick to make the game feel fresh so it feels like a proper sequel, like Superstars tried to do with the emerald powers but you know, more fun. A small budget game like that is bound to earn its money back when people have wanted it for so long.

    Sonic Adventure 1 Remake -
    Just keep the physics and soundtrack the same, give the visuals the same artstyle with some modern spit and polish and fix the bugs. Maybe get Ian to improve on the script like mistranslated lines and whatever. Would sell itself, really, the original game is over 20 years old so people are bound to feel nostalgic to buy a proper remake by now.

    Sonic Adventure 2 Remake -
    If people liked the first remake we can get a bit more ambitious with this one. I love this game but if we can open up Sonic and Shadow's levels a bit more with some more paths, un-nerf the Emerald Radar and improve on the shooter physics to make them more like Gamma I'm sure people wouldn't mind. Add in a few new scenes to fix up a few plot holes and there you go, perfect remake.

    A proper Mario and Sonic crossover game -
    It can be an RPG, fighting game, I don't know but it's bizarre it hasn't happened yet. Maybe just hire Alvin Earthworm and let him direct an over the top fighting game. It would print money for decades.

    More animations -
    People love these. Put them in the game.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2024
  19. Brainulator

    Brainulator

    Regular garden-variety member Member
    I would release the Genesis games' source code online under the MIT license and CC-BY-SA license their assets. :-P
     
  20. Rokkan

    Rokkan

    Member
    807
    8
    18
    I understand the impulse to go "Why don't new Sonic games look more like their 2D games?" and get bothered by the inconsistencies in the series, from character depiction to radical shifts in tone from one game to the next, but keep in mind games now take anywhere between 2 to 5 years to make. A lot of things come and go in that meantime - aesthetic trends, demographic aging, technology development, certain stories becoming stale, etc. Games developed now need to almost predict the future and feel what's *about* to be in vogue, if they follow what's hot *now*, it'll probably be stale by the time the game actually comes out. Sonic has always been about chasing what's hottest and newest and adapting it into itself, and this is why every game is kind of its own thing a little bit.

    Also, if you told me 3 years ago the next Sonic game was going to be one where Shadow's the main character and they bring back Black Doom as the main antagonist *and* it doesn't answer any of the weird mysteries and clashing things about Shadow's character and origin I'd be like "this is stupid, Sonic has lost itself forever", but it's now one of my favorite Sonic games! The franchise always needs to look into the future and predict what's going to be stale and passé then, what's going to be fresh and exciting and welcome then, and Shadow Generations made me realize they maybe did that much better than I could.

    Okay that being said if I gotta be selfish and ask for things that I would personally like (especially to make the answer interesting) instead of what would be "good for the brand", here's what I can think of:

    I think OP's assertion that Sonic's closest analogue is One Piece is absolutely correct and I think this is the tone that the series should be looking at. Bright, fun adventures with a lot of comedy that can also get very serious and emotional at the drop of a hat. Really wish to see Sonic absorb some of those qualities, especially the comedy and the gut-wrenching sentimental qualities of One Piece. I know the fandom is like "the LAST thing I want is Sonic to be silly again" but the problem with the Sonic Colors -> Forces era is not that it was too comedic, it's that it often eschewed taking itself seriously to do that -and- that it wasn't very funny either. There just wasn't any good writing a lot of the time in those games! Some of my favorite character writing in the series is Sonic Battle and Sonic & the Secret Rings - I think the comedy in those is really superb and the character writing is spot-on, and also they both get serious and sentimental when things ramp up.

    One Piece also relies on classic cartooning and classic archetypes a lot which is 100% the appeal of Sonic characters. It's why Sonic has always been popular with every new generation of kids, they're drawing from this universal cartoon appeal. But the games will sometimes, like, almost pretend that these aren't cartoon funny animals? You can be edgy *and* funny cartoon animal!

    Redesigning the characters is something I would like them to do that is probably not a good "brand move", since the franchise is doing so well and it doesn't need to rock the boat and risk fractioning the fanbase further, but I don't think there needs to be a "major" redesign, just tweaks so they look better. I just don't think any of the characters' current 3D models look as good as they did in like... Sonic Adventure 2. The muzzles are too small, and I don't like them always resorting to the side-mouth, it just doesn't look great when the characters are -always- "sidetalking" and the mouth either looks like a hole or it's always doing the "nike curve". The hands are too big, but I think that's mostly the fingers being too god damn big and thick - I understand the sidemouth and the hands are trying to make them look more cartoony but it just doesn't work like they envision them to. And as game graphics also get more detailed and rendering gets more complex, the characters look too plastic-y and weird too. Especially their shoes. The shoes are the big thing for me, with nearly all of the characters. Especially after playing that Sonic Generations mod that gives Sonic the movie shoes. It looks amazing! The movie shoes look more fitting than his regular shoes! I wish the games would just give Sonic those shoes - it captures the more angular appeal of classic Sonic shoes (I hate how weirdly tall Modern Sonic's shoes look) while also having those positive traits of the Soap Shoes everyone loves (sleeker, cooler shapes). Sonic characters have this cool "urban" edge to them and I think their accessories should reflect that, they should look a little "drip"pier, instead of looking a little "pre-school toy". Just giving them more detail and texture, like how Mario looks in Mario Odyssey, alongside giving them slightly more natural shapes, would probably be enough, so that they don't look very differently in 2D art. Also probably give them the big eyebrows again. Modern Knuckles just looks smooth and weird and I think the downplaying of the brows is a big part of it. Someone fix Knuckles please. I can't be the only one who feels like Modern Knuckles' head looks really off and round. Make his snout protrude more, make the top of his head more angular, give him big brows, mess with the eye shapes, just do something!! He looks weird!!

    As for the games and their mechanics, figuring out a new game style that doesn't rely on "boost" and can accomodate multiple characters I think is a priority. Everyone misses the extended cast and playing as them. Making the characters move a bit "slower" would also help in allowing them to design more levels faster and create more interesting interactions with the stages. Playing that Sonic Generations mod of Mario from Mario 64 in it was this realization that like... there's so many interesting places in that game that you never notice or give them the time of day because you just blast through them too fast. These Modern Sonic levels could have easily been split into two pretty engaging levels instead of just one if you didn't boost through everywhere. Making a 3D Sonic game that looks like that but you don't move as fast and you have multiple characters that roughly play similarly but have different abilities (like in Classic Sonic) I think would be a slam-dunk, especially when paired with a fun hub world like the one in Shadow Generations, except it looks and feels more like a "place", like Station Square does. I don't think this is even me being selfish, I think it's the most logical thing for the franchise to do and something that everyone would like. And I think the big problems that the Adventure games had (at least in the Sonic/Shadow segments) are pretty solved by now, especially with the camera, the camera design in Sonic Frontiers and Shadow Generations is outstanding. And if you want a more high-speed segment akin to the boost games, you can do what Sonic Colors did, just have small segments where you autorun and all you do is just dodge left and right. Like there's short "visual spectacle" versions of the Sonic 2 Special Stages in the middle of the levels.

    And as for releases between big games... A Sonic GBA collection would probably do pretty well, there's been a recent surge of nostalgia for those games, and again, I feel that (after playing it recently with the new translation by Windii) Sonic Battle is a very well-written Sonic game that is very integral to the franchise. So I really think it should be "pushed" so that it becomes a bigger part of the collective fan understanding of "the canon of Sonic". If I can be selfish though, I would love to get *certain people* hired to do to the Advance games what they did to the classic games. Having those games play more akin to Sonic 1-3 (like if they could just plop Sonic Advance graphics into the same engine), giving them more screenspace, sanding off the unfair bits of level design and making Chaos Emeralds easier to get in them would really, really make them shine. So that + emulated Sonic Battle (ideally with a new translation and slight rebalancing tweaks so it's less grindy, or outright an easy mode), would be perfect, and you could charge something like 50$ for it, especially if you decide to include a "definitive" Tiny Chao Garden that has all the mini-games and features from both Tiny Chao Garden 1 and 2 and that collects Rings from all games in the collection (and maybe even include evolution, since there's no Sonic Adventure 2/DX to connect and evolve your Chao to, and new graphics for all the different evolutions), and a simple art gallery. If Sonic Pinball Party and Sonic Pocket Adventure could be included, just emulated as they were, nothing else added to them, it would make the collection even more alluring! Pocket Adventure is a great game! Hey, and if I can *really* shoot for the moon, if the Advance games get the treatment of rebuilding them from the ground up, you could not only include Cream in Advance 1, but even outright add Shadow to Advance 1 and 2 (maybe not 3 because it would involve having to create new tag-team mechanics for combinations of him with all the other characters, unless his "gimmick" is that he's a loner and doesn't partner up)

    And for the question of whether should Classic Sonic still be a thing, I don't know. I would still love an actual Mania 2 that was made of completely new levels, but that's kind of what Superstars was aiming for, so I don't think there's a big interest in that anymore. I certainly love when IDW does "Classic Sonic" stuff, and I also love "Classic Sonic" merch, so those shouldn't completely stop, but I can't imagine a new "Classic Sonic game" that makes sense today. And I also don't like when they're portrayed as if Modern and Classic are different characters. Ideally I would just like the main "Modern" cast to incorporate more elements that we associate with "Classic Sonic". Make Tails look a bit cuter, Knuckles more angular, more of the visual design of 2D Sonic, make the characters be more cartoon-y, Sonic being much less snarky and having a wider range of emotions, while still maintaining the "coolness" of "post-Classic". And if the original games are revisited and called back, just use the classic designs, don't pretend that they're different characters, it's the same characters but younger.

    And about the comics, my impulse would be to go "just incorporate the IDW stuff into the main games and vice-versa", but I understand them having a degree of separation is what allows the people at IDW to have more freedom to just tell their own stories with their characters. But! You can always add a few IDW characters to your spin-off games at the very least! I'll be shocked and disappointed if, say, Tangle or Surge don't appear in Racing Crossworlds!

    And finally, I would love to recast the entire English VA cast, maybe with the exception of Tails. I just don't think the current VAs match the Japanese side very well at all, they really give off a completely different impression and read of the characters.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2025