don't click here

What would make them better?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Lugbzurg, Sep 14, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. I know several of you have seen my thread "Those Hater Sonic Characters" ( http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=22643 ) in which you all discuss which characters you dislike and why. So, it brought up an interesting point to me.

    How would you make them better?

    And "killing them off" or "getting rid of them" will not be an answer. They're there. Theres gotta be a way that you could find them likable.

    Sonic the Hedgehog
    The Bad - He is a biased jerk and says "Looks like we need to..." way too often. He stops to gawk at nearly everything and turns everything into a question. He seems to "need" everyone's aproval before he's about to do anything.
    The Save - Made him free as the wind again, "fighting for what's right" and always going back to save that last kid and keep them close, not to mention, no fear of asking his friends for help. And, of course, he just needs Ryan Drummond again to give him his ecstatic life again.

    Miles "Tails" Prower
    The Bad - He is a third wheel, can't seem to invent anymore, isn't independant and has been demoted to Sonic's chauffeur.
    The Save - He needs to be able to pull of even somewhat decent victories on his own like in Adventure (Egg Walker), rather than Unleashed (Dark Gaia Spawns). He needs to be on the prowel, trying to become the strongest, bravest fox he can be. He also needs a male voice again.

    Knuckles the Echidna
    The Bad - He has become a totally blind, hot-headed bully and always gets angry, like all the time. He also seems to have forgotten that the Master Emerald even exists. He also makes too many bad knuckles/fist-related puns and jokes.
    The Save - He can be a cool, mellow guy like he was from 1994-2004, and not snap when the Master Emerald is taken. There should also still be some friction between him and Sonic like way back when, rather than being so buddy-buddy all the time. I also think he should be somewhat tribial in a way and also have a darker mussle again so he doesn't look so caucasian.

    Shadow the Hedgehog
    The Bad - He has become completely emotionless and a total know-it-all. He talks kinda cheap and waits way too long to spring into action.
    The Save - Make him a master planner again. Make him still a little confused sometimes and make him the sort that prefers something to be done himself if he wants it done well, yet not doing so if it's not completely nececary.

    Rouge the Bat
    The Bad - She flirts way too much and now shows about half her chest, unlike in Adventure 2. She also doesn't care about treasure-hunting anymore. She also asks too many questions about the most obvious things.
    The Save - She shouldn't flirt or anything, but she should still try to toy with people and be a tease, especially when it comes to relationships, yet not mention one with her. She needs to be seen with diamonds and rubies and the like frequently and should still taunt poor Knuckles to death all the livelong day.

    E123-Omega
    The Bad - He now speaks in the steriotype of 1950's "Robot Speak" and can only move one or two joints at a time. He doesn't talk enough, either and is too prone to violence, even for a robot built specificly for such a purpose.
    The Save - He can be more fluent and alive like in Sonic Heroes and constantly check his back while watching everyone else's and have a desire to do to Eggman what he did to him... or his brothers like E101-Beta.

    Silver the Hedgehog
    The Bad - He takes too long to make decisions except for stupid ones (like just handing a 7-year-old a Chaos Emerald) and keeps to himself too much. He also doesn't seem to care if anyone in the background gets hurt and jumps to conclusions way too quickly.
    The Save - He should be able to identify "the bad crowd" (Mephiles just looked so evil right from the start) and even want to do people favors to the point where the sometimes find it bothersome. He should just be too soft and generous for his own good and should keep to his policy that was stated in Sonic Next-Gen but was never performed: "Fight for those who cannot fight for themselves."

    Blaze the Cat
    The Bad - She doesn't speak out when she knows something is wrong ("Blue Hedgehog...") or someone or something is simply bothering her. She also backs down as soon as someone else shows up, able to take on a task.
    The Save - She should be stern, but also rather shy. Especially both with guys (males) she does not know. She shoudl also be able to be completely platonic all the time (unlike Rouge) and never back down, even when someone else can handle it. She should show this Sonic/Knuckles-like personality/role as was described about her but was never shown by her actions. She probably wouldn't be very good with kids, though.

    Amy Rose
    The Bad - She runs around with a little too much of an obsession with Sonic (Sonic Heroes: Grand Metropolis). She doesn't like any other girls even being friends with or near Sonic, in fact, she doesn't seem to like any other girls in general. She tries to get in one's face (literally) too much and can be a bit bossy, sometimes. She also sticks around too often, complaining about being bored when she doesn't even need to be in the area.
    The Save - She needs to be sweet and modest again. She should be more outgoing and, when she sees Sonic, she should just smile and wave and maybe walk to him, rather than running after him and should be "More independant" like she said she should be in Sonic Adventure. She also needs to fight back when (or if) captured, rather than calling Sonic for help. She should also hang out with Tails more often and tease Knuckles sometimes, as well as butter Shadow into doing something for the better of the group as one of the first resorts. She should also shop more often.

    Cream the Rabbit
    The Bad - She doesn't know her own weakness. She thinks she can do everything and fail to realise that everyone else is about twice her age. She's trying to grow up too fast and she seems to think the world is all candy and sweets. Even in the case of Eggman.
    The Save - She should know where her strengths lie, as well as her limits. She shouldn't try to jump into all the action too much (as she's the most likely to get caught) and she should be the sort to "patch everyone up". I also think she should have plenty of conversations with cheese and other chao, while everyone just stares at her, confused.

    Big the Cat
    The Bad - He gets himself into trouble. Trouble that he causes. He can sometimes take advantege of people and doesn't have any solid friends, it seems. He also doesn't know Cream's name. ("The cute rabbit can do it!" "Cute rabbit!")
    The Save - He can make more cameos (the ones in Sonic Adventure 2 were genius!), he can be there wher someone needs a boost. In fact, since he used to appear just about everywhere, he should appear just when you need him in various levels to help you out with something, like, say doing a cannonball move that destroys all enemies onscreen. He should also try to jump in with other people, while everyone thinks he can't handle it and may save lives without ever realising it, smashing up everything while just trying to turn around or pick up Froggy and come in for the kill when badniks think he's barely a minor threat.

    Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik
    The Bad - He relies too much out outward sources and makes everything too obvious. He just toys with his enemies in a bad way, rather than subduing them. He goes too much on the "carnival" theme and now sits around doing nothing rather than thying to stop Sonic himself multiple times over like the days of old. He keeps making huge mistakes and has his "enemies" help make everything right as rain more often than not.
    The Save - He needs to have his machines elite again, not toonish. He needs to get the big jobs done on his own and constantly be on the watch. He should be one step ahead of everyone and frustrate his enemies with this fact by being so thurough. He needs to actually be evil again and not just a generic goofball and not give out his plans. He should also try to scare people more, like he did in Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2. He flooded Station Square and Blew up the Moon! What does he do now? Build an evil carnival. (oooh, so scary...) He needs to remember his roots; where he came from. He should also try to cause tense events for the heroes by causing a them to compromise and make a deal with him, however much they don't like it. He shouldn't be "afraid" to get help, but he shouldn't be so reliant on it that he bases his plans on it.

    So, tell me your thoughts, people. What is it that you wish the characters could be like? And I don't mean everyone being all nice and the bad guys being all mean. No one's perfect, so, having everyone as perfect friends would get boring, so, there should be nothing "perfect" about them.

    <div align='center'>Anyway, how would you do this?</div>
     
  2. MarkoMan

    MarkoMan

    In memory of Dreds... Member
    294
    0
    0
    Queens, NY
    Sonic 2 Turbo
    Hmmm... interesting. I'll bite.

    Sonic... should simply not be too cheesy. I kinda like what his personality has evolved into, but whoever's writing for Sonic apparently likes it too much. Also, I agree that a lot of what Sonic was is gone, and that should return. I don't mind Sonic as a cocky bastard, I mean, he's the fastest thing alive, so he can't be modest all the time. But he shouldn't be overly cocky as well.

    Tails... he definitely a bit more independence, but at the same time, it's not like these characters age. Still, he should definitely get some more significance than he's had lately, but I blame that on everyone saying, "I only wanna play as Sonic!" You get what you wish for, assholes. You shoulda asked for better gameplay first, then maybe we wouldn't have gotten Sonic Unleashed.

    Knuckles... he has literally turned into the "Knuckles stereotype" that I had tried to defend him from for years. The Master Emerald needs to return, he needs to not be so angry. Maybe the reason he's angry is because he literally doesn't know where the Master Emerald is.

    Shadow... I honestly thought that they took the wrong path with him when they turned him into an anti-hero. Playable villain is what I would have made him if I was in control.

    Rouge... she's supposed to be the slut, but she should definitely remember that she's this big jewel thief. She has totally forgotten that.

    Omega... I just hate his voice. Everything they do to Omega seems to stem from the fact that Eggman isn't even legit anymore, so they'll have to fix Eggman before they fix Omega.

    Silver... First, he needs some running exercises. He has to at least have a decent running speed. Second, I guess being the "key of justice" like you suggested would work wonders for him, but I honestly just don't like him and thinks he generally needed some character development. Or de-development... like the reverse, and just be this simply, psychic character or something.

    Blaze... I have no issues with Blaze aside from the whole "I'm from another dimension, I mean time period, I mean... I dunno what I mean" thing.

    Amy Rose... I just don't like her.

    Cream the Rabbit... she totally needs a new voice. And you say that she shouldn't be trying to do everything that everyone who's twice her age does, and theoretically, you're correct. However, I get through Sonic Advance 2 and 3 easier with her than any other character, and she can destroy entire teams in Sonic Heroes by herself if Amy and Big get eliminated. But yeah, she should definitely stay in her place as a child.

    Big... needs to pull a Mighty and never show his face round these parts again.

    Robotnik... he needs to be the fucking man again. Remember Sonic 3 & Knuckles? He tricked Knuckles, he attacked Sonic and Tails every chance he got, he snatched the Master Emerald right from Knuckles at the right moment, and just as the Death Egg was falling apart again, he had the Doomsday Machine. Robotnik had everything under control once upon a time. Now, he is in fact a goofball. Robotnik needs to be epic again.
     
  3. Remove everyone but Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Robotnik, and Metal Sonic.

    Done.
     
  4. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

    Arriving four years late. Member
    5,330
    407
    63
    Lincs, UK
    TurBoa, S1RL
     
  5. OSM

    OSM

    retro is for losers! Member
    4,156
    0
    0
    Doing absolutely nothing
     
  6. Covarr

    Covarr

    Sentient Cash Register Member
    4,233
    3
    18
    Trapped in my own thoughts.
    Two stageplays, a screenplay, and an album
    Fang: give him a slapstick-ridden animated series. Main Sonic characters get occasional cameos, nothing more.
     
  7. Now this...this may work.
     
  8. Shade Vortex

    Shade Vortex

    The Black Vortex Member
    562
    39
    28
    USA, WA.
    Twitch Streams
    I'll give my opinions on the matter as well.

    Sonic: He needs to be like how he was in Adventure 1 and 2, really. Nice, helpful, though impatient and unable to stand staying in one spot for too long without getting bored, but still able to take things seriously when he needs to. None of htis bs about asking his friends' opinions about everything or being a jerk to people (he actually was kind of the villain in Black Knight).

    Shadow: Just fucking kill him off. He should have stayed dead after SA2. I mean this as respectfully as I can- even if his personality was made the same as it was in SA2, he wouldn't be a good character. His personality in 06 was alright, but he's overrated and completely unnecessary- hell, he hasn't been in a main series game's story SINCE 06.

    Metal Sonic: He needs to show up in more main series games as a stroy character, but not made to speak or be sentient like in Heroes. He should be used the way he is meant to be: As Eggman's ultimate attempt at copying Sonic in order to defeat Sonic. He should have a strong role in racing and or fighting Sonic in at least a few major battles in the games, possibly havign a role as the new "Boss before a last boss" at least in one game, with a giant Eggman mech as the last boss.

    Eggman: He needs to be a bit more serious and evil in his plans, though he should still have a heart like in Adventure 2. He should once again start be a recurring last boss in a new giant robot each time. It'd be a lot better than a monset-of-the-week thing.

    Amy: She needs to be like how she was in the Adventures as well, less annoying, more independent, and actually serving some purpose in the plot other than following Sonic.

    Silver: He needs to be less oblivious, for god's sake. And less assumptive as well.

    I do realize I've only mentioned the Hedgehog characters and the main recurring villain, but I honestly don't mind the way Knuckles or Tails have become that much. And as for everyone else, I do not feel like saying anything about them, for good or bad.
     
  9. Jay T.

    Jay T.

    It takes an idiot to do cool things... Member
    Uh...guys...

    Just saying...

    Anyway, Lugbzurg, I actually like your opinions on the characters. All are great. One thing for Blaze though is that SEGA needs to really decide on which is right or wrong in terms of where she's from. I guess the Rush series are Spin Offs, so I guess she is from the future. Maybe.
     
  10. Frozen Nitrogen

    Frozen Nitrogen

    Wouldn't the door have been easier? Wiki Sysop
    • Evil Eggman - and I mean SatAM levels of evil
    • Warrior-monk Knuckles - Fleetway style, and none of this hot-head "I PUNCH ROCKS"
    • Mercenary Rouge - Let Robotnik buy her loyalty for a game or something
    • Adorable puppy Tails - Return him to Sonic's side rather than stuffing him in a lab


    That would do me fine. There are more edits I'd do, but those are the main ones.

    EDIT: And as for digging Blaze out of her plot mire and getting her to do cool stuff again:

    "Caught in a time vortex by the Solaris Incident, Blaze's past is as chaotic and shifting as her flames! Warrior from the future AND princess from another world, can this formidable cat help Sonic stop Eggman newest plan?"
     
  11. Since I can't get rid of Big anymore, this is now what I agree with.
     
  12. MarkoMan

    MarkoMan

    In memory of Dreds... Member
    294
    0
    0
    Queens, NY
    Sonic 2 Turbo
    Anyone can disappear just as well as Mighty and Ray can. :/
     
  13. Frozen Nitrogen

    Frozen Nitrogen

    Wouldn't the door have been easier? Wiki Sysop
    <div align='center'>[​IMG] [​IMG] ?</div>
     
  14. Vantoggle

    Vantoggle

    Member
    183
    0
    0
    Recently my sleep/procrastination time has been spent giving the cast a face-lift. Problem is, when I'm done a lot of the time they don't even resemble the original characters. :/ ....Also they scare small children...
    [​IMG](Shadow)
    [​IMG](Mephiles)
     
  15. Zephyr

    Zephyr

    Member
    3,473
    440
    63
    US
    <div align='center'>= PROFIT</div>

    But yeah, Blaze, Silver, and Eggman Nega could do for a massive backstory retcon.

    And Robotnik could certainly learn to stand by himself for once, instead of having to enlisting the help of another monster of the week every game, that will inevitably betray him in the final act.
     
  16. GT Koopa

    GT Koopa

    Member
    2,021
    18
    18
    Elgin, IL
    Flicky Turncoat DX, T.L.W.S. Vs M.G.W.
    More of this.
     
  17. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    Make Sonic and Tails' personalities about the same as theirs from the Sonic OVA. Sonic should be more laid back and unwilling to do much unless if it sort of aids him and/or it's morally right to do so; however when he gets to work he knows how to take care of business when needed. Make Sonic and Tails be more of a brotherly bond that really care for eachother, although they may argue and scuffle every now and then. Tails can be smart and do technology stuff, but still follows around and tags along with Sonic constantly.

    Knuckles needs to go "OVA" as well and Robotnik needs to get gritty and evil again. Get Robotnik as far from his "Sonic X" interpretation as possible and make him a credible and threatening madman again, kind of like in SA1 and most of Nextgen (the only thing they seemed to do right). Knuckles shouldn't be such an "all-brawn-no-brain" character either. Knuckles should be witty and intelligent, and knows how to take down someone. He can protect the turf of his Angel Island faithfully, but also (since he can hide the Master Emerald in another corner of Hidden Palace), Knuckles does treasure hunting and collecting as a hobby. Also, that cowboy hat NEEDS a return.

    Amy needs to go back to being a smitten puppy with a cute crush on Sonic, rather than being a naggy Sonic obsessionist/fangirl, with stalker-like qualities. Plus, the hair is sort of offputting, considering she's a hedgehog (and considering she's female but has shorter spikes than the guy hedgehogs).

    Blaze needs the shenanigans in Nextgen and Rush FIXED.

    Shadow should be named Terios again and actually use shadows as his superability. Why? Because it'd be much cooler than what we have as a mere Sonic recolor. Oh yeah, and retcon Shadow's death in SA2, which will retcon Heroes and ShTH. Make him a mercenary and agent for GUN that brings justice because of promising Maria that he will make the world a better place.

    Metal Sonic could.. Well, he's perfect as is. Okay, I don't like the whole "Robotnik speaker" thing from Rivals so I'll say he should be sentient. Be like, once again, the OVA. Be Sonic's equal, but morally opposite.

    Silver could go with being a mink again like his original design intention, maybe have his spikes streamlined, and not be an oblivious idiot. Rouge could be less obsessed with jewels and more with pleasure and getting cold hard cash for dirty work (given by either GUN or Robotnik). Cream could just stop existing, Cheese would be his own character. Big could be the "god tier" character that noone dares bother, Froggy could be his only challenge. Vector could tone down his voice and be more music-oriented, Charmy could be more like his previous personality description (a 16 year old that's incredibly romantic and polite), Espio could stop being a Naruto character, and Mighty could come back as the ironic combination of "peace-loving hippy with super stregnth".
     
  18. 0r4ng3

    0r4ng3

    Member
    1,318
    0
    0
    Sonic
    Good: He does not angst and his willpower is so strong nothing can shake him.. I also his rebellious side and his free spirit, his arrogance and cockiness. He's not a typical nice hero but his flaws are lovable.
    Bad: The traits above are just below the surface these days. They should be more pronounced. He also should have a bit more attitude, but a smart attitude, not embarrassing like the shows or cartoons. The Sonic OVA was pretty good on this.

    Tails
    Good: I like that he's a genius, that he's always happy and willing to tagalong and help Sonic.
    Bad: He doesn't have much of a personality these days. Maybe make him more insecure, shy and afraid to take action (Unleashed kind of hinted at the latter. He's also eight, so he should behave like an eight year old, not like an eighty year old man. He's far too independent as well, so I think he should go back to idolizing Sonic and getting into trouble often. Another problem is his competence. I had no problems with Tails managing to copy a Chaos Emerald in SA2, because he got outsmarted by Eggman in the end. Every now and then he should prove himself as capable.

    Knuckles
    I like Knuckles a lot, no matter the incarnation besides Chronicles, which ruined him by ratting out his past. Unknown is half the story about Knuckles and should stay that way. I find that being a hot headed fool to go rather well with his known back story. He's used to have things his way and no one to tell him what to do. He probably thinks his opinions are all correct because he doesn't know any better. I really like Knuckles so I can't even dislike when they make him a moron, as it amuses me so. He can do no wrong so as long as they don't go overboard with this then it's fine by me. I think most would like if it was more alike gullibility and unfamiliar with the world. He never had much contact with others so there aren't any social skills and since he only knows Angel Island well after all, he could be surprised around technology. For example, this would be a nice excuse for some interaction between him and Tails. They don't seem to be friends of each other, more like friends of Sonic independently. His rivalry with Sonic should return as well. Shadow might be Sonic's rival in speed, but there's the old rock, paper and scissors game Knuckles and Sonic could fall on. It would be easy to make them annoyed at each other, as they have different ways to see things. Knuckles also needs more ties with the rest of the characters. Maybe Shadow as just another Sonic and being friends with Amy, who's nice to everybody for example. The huffiness around Rouge must return, romantic or not, but I liked those two and how flustered he could get in Sonic X. Ah! He's the one I have least problems it, yet I wrote so much!

    Amy
    Good: I like that Amy has no special powers like the rest, or at least not as impressing, but still manages to find a place amongst the heroes. I also like that she's such a happy brat and that can comfort and inspire others.
    Bad: She's portrayed as just Sonic obsessed these days. Her personality is all it takes for her to be the heart of the series. Sonic and Knuckles start fighting, she stops them (hammer included or not), Tails feels insecure and she cheers him up, Knuckles feels lonely on the island, Amy convinces the rest to go visit him, even if Knuckles is only secretly glad and shows his fists instead. Convince Shadow to help the cast. Hang out with Rouge and do girly things. The Sonic obsession is fine as well, but he must show at least some ambiguity, otherwise the poor girl just comes off as delusional. Some games did this right, others need a heck of a lot fanwanking, and others don't have anything at all. I don't see the point of her having such an obsessive crush and then be cruel and not throw her a bone every now and then. She's not Harley. Maybe make the relationship more alike Pucca, the flash series.

    Shadow
    Good: His SA2/Heroes portrayal.
    Bad: His portrayal in his game onwards. Shadow should get rid of the perpetual frown, lighten up a lot and be unpredictable. Antagonize Sonic and Knuckles for the heck of it. Scare Tails for no good reason. Make suggestive passes at Amy. Tolerate Eggman and do some of his bidding now and then because he's Maria's cousin. Maybe this is a bit too much, but he sure needs to lighten up and have more flair to him. Tap into what the others characters don't do, otherwise he won't have a place.

    Rouge
    Good: There is nothing I don't like, besides the 06 emotionless. I also disliked that every character treated her as crap in Battle. Especially Amy. Why can't these two be friends?
    Bad: She should be more manipulative, more of a wild card and more of a treasure hunter / thief. Work for GUN sure, maybe as a win-win situation (she gets less of a criminal sheet / more jewels and GUN gets an extraordinary agent), but focus on the rest as well, otherwise she's boring. She also should have more interactions with the other characters besides Shadow. Bring back the Knuckles interaction. Make her friends with Amy. Make Tails have a crush on her. Make Eggman give her jewels in exchange for her treasure hunter / thief skills. Otherwise she's accessory of the accessory.

    I don't see that many problems with Cream or the Chaotix. Big should stay a relaxed character, not a moron like in Chronicles. Eggman should have some of his plans come true, otherwise he's fine. Omega is fine in my opinion, besides the robot speak and the annoying robot sounds, and his role in 06 was just bland. It seems to be recurrent for Team Dark. The ANNOYING MEATBAGS and WORTHLESS CONSUMER MODELS comments must return however. I have nothing against the Babylon Rogues either. If anything, make them more underhanded.

    This is rather charming. :3
     
  19. Sparks

    Sparks

    Member
    3,141
    182
    43
    Sondro Gomez / Kyle & Lucy
    Fixed to fit my thoughts
     
  20. Quarterman

    Quarterman

    Just another day in paradise. Member
    I agree with this greatly. I very much liked the characterization used in the OVA, and feel it's the best use of the characters. I'd be very happyto see this again.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.