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What would make a good classic sonic game?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by tonic41, Oct 2, 2009.

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  1. tonic41

    tonic41

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    Sonic game code name? sonic classic
    Thanks everyone for the tips... I think I should give more info on the gameplay characters and story...
    ~Gameplay... based off sonic CD ,3&knuckles.
    ~story & characters
    eggman plans on remaking the death egg but then he finds his files of metal and mecha sonic. so he fixs them up
    sonic & tails- have to save the world
    knuckles- thinks metal sonic is sonic
    amy- wants to thanks sonic for savin her(Sonic CD)
    metal sonic- eggman thinks mecha is a better model( he is...)
    Mighty & Ray- no story just for fun
    btw will SAdv3 hub world fit in a classic game? it will only be used for level select and to show number of chaos emeralds.
    also any gimmick ideas...
     
  2. The Game Collector

    The Game Collector

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    <!--quoteo(post=357211:date=Oct 4 2009, 04:16 AM:name=tonic41)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tonic41 @ Oct 4 2009, 04:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357211">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks everyone for the tips... I think I should give more info on the gameplay characters and story...
    ~Gameplay... based off sonic CD ,3&knuckles.
    ~story & characters
    eggman plans on remaking the death egg but then he finds his files of metal and mecha sonic. so he fixs them up
    sonic & tails- have to save the world
    knuckles- thinks metal sonic is sonic
    amy- wants to thanks sonic for savin her(Sonic CD)
    metal sonic- eggman thinks mecha is a better model( he is...)
    Mighty & Ray- no story just for fun
    btw will SAdv3 hub world fit in a classic game? it will only be used for level select and to show number of chaos emeralds.
    also any gimmick ideas...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So are you saying Metal Sonic is on the good side this time due to jealousy over Mecha Sonic? That would be interesting.

    Mighty and Ray would be cool to have but it would be more interesting if you mentioned a reason for them being there. At least having them run into the other guys in the story or something. Unless you'd rather them remain laid low and kind of just stalk the others without saying hi, the way Knuckles used to be pretty much.

    One thing about Mighty is that he could go on some Knuckles exclusive paths that involve wall climbing by using his wall kick move, so if you want to make a true Knuckles-only path it's a good decision to make a wall that only he can break. You can make a Mighty exlclusive path by making a very tall shaft that Mighty can scale with his wall kick, but is too far for Tails to fly. But then at the top make a non-climbable surface that is just a little too high for Knuckles to jump.

    If you do choose to make Ray glide, it would be cool to make him fall from a glide in ball form so the move doesn't become useless as it is in the "Ray in Sonic 1" hack. Release the button and fall in ball form so you can smash an enemy below.

    As far as the Sonic Advance 3 thing goes, I didn't like it much. I prefer a map screen when it comes to being able to choose levels and replay them. Either that or make a screen like the S3&K level select screen on the data file selection screen (probably the best option).
     
  3. phoenixwright7

    phoenixwright7

    Cry, and my whip will accommodate! Member
    <!--quoteo(post=356935:date=Oct 2 2009, 05:01 PM:name=HeartAttack)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeartAttack @ Oct 2 2009, 05:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=356935">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Super Sonic. In all of these new Sonic games, you CAN find emeralds, and that's great...but you can only become Super Sonic ONCE in that extra level that opens up. What the HELL ever happened to the ability to become Super Sonic in ANY level once you get all the emeralds? I really miss that. Sure, it's nice to open that 1 secret level at the end of the newer games...but that's the ONLY time you can be Super Sonic. WHY!? Like I said, they need to take away these blast attack abilities and leave Sonic as his good ol' self, and then give him sweet abilities once he gathers allt he emeralds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Having played through sonic 3 and knuckles more times than I care to count, I have to say that while I do enjoy playing around as the super/hyper forms every now and then, I actually prefer not worrying about collecting all the emeralds and just completing the zones, so not having the ability of playing as the super/hyper forms in every level isn't that big of a deal for me any more. That being said, I'd make sure that the special stages are fun and it isn't like, nearly impossible access (I was only ever able to access the special stage in sonic advance 2 once, and I ended up failing at it :argh: ). I'd say, take sonic 2's special stages, alter them just a bit so that it doesn't feel like we're playing through the same special stages that we did years ago, and call it a day. Sonic 2's were my personal favorite.
     
  4. DimensionWarped

    DimensionWarped

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    <!--quoteo(post=357019:date=Oct 3 2009, 04:44 AM:name=Phos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phos @ Oct 3 2009, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357019">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I might be wrong, but I'm guessing you read up to this thing:
    <a href="http://sonicjam.wikidot.com/local—files/nssnsi:what-is-a-sonic-game/elements_of_a_sonic_game.png" target="_blank">http://sonicjam.wikidot.com/local—files/..._sonic_game.png</a>
    And wrote off the rest of the site. That chart isn't really representative of the rest of the cite, and he does actually get a bit into the nitty gritty, and you have to keep in mind this site was never finished.

    Also, I was just looking around SFGHQ and couldn't find anything like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    First, no, it doesn't get into depth with anything. Examples are sparse and lacking in variety for any given topic and it's sooooo vague that it would never be helpful from a genuine game design point of view. Why on Earth would you separate the various facets of physical simulation? It isn't as though balls are somehow physically distinct from skateboards/bmx biking/insert extreme sport that involves ramps here. And the site is so flooded with buzzwords that it makes me want to throw up in my mouth. Overclock speed? Super Hero Situations? Get the fuck out.

    And second, of course you couldn't find any of that on SFGHQ. It all took place in forum discussions over a course of several years. Everything of any interest that is mentioned is stuff that is just second nature to the people over there who actually pay attention. There isn't a single useful concept there that hasn't been used in the level design for Sonic Nexus.

    As for retarded charts, I'm pretty much including every in-brief section on there. And yes, also that elements of a Sonic game thing. It is so elaborate and yet it says absolutely nothing. And as much as that was an immediate turn-off, it didn't make me instantly write off the site. It merely colored my expectations.
     
  5. Phos

    Phos

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    <!--quoteo(post=357249:date=Oct 4 2009, 04:13 AM:name=DimensionWarped)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DimensionWarped @ Oct 4 2009, 04:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357249">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And second, of course you couldn't find any of that on SFGHQ. It all took place in forum discussions over a course of several years. Everything of any interest that is mentioned is stuff that is just second nature to the people over there who actually pay attention. There isn't a single useful concept there that hasn't been used in the level design for Sonic Nexus.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And what of someone who doesn't want to spend years lurking on SFGHQ?
     
  6. DimensionWarped

    DimensionWarped

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    They can continue to be impressed by what most of us would consider very basic observations.
     
  7. Ayla

    Ayla

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    <!--quoteo(post=357211:date=Oct 3 2009, 10:16 PM:name=tonic41)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tonic41 @ Oct 3 2009, 10:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357211">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->~Gameplay... based off sonic CD ,3&knuckles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If you truely stick to that right there, you'd be hardpressed to go wrong. Complex level design that can be finished either quickly or widely explored. Sonic 2 Retro Remix's level design figured out this formula perfectly with excellent results if you want an example to try out.
     
  8. DimensionWarped

    DimensionWarped

    Erinaceous! Oldbie
    The trick is in dissecting what is there and then putting it all back together in a way that is more than just carbon copying.
     
  9. HeartAttack

    HeartAttack

    is a smug hipster, brah! Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=357238:date=Oct 4 2009, 12:33 AM:name=phoenixwright7)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phoenixwright7 @ Oct 4 2009, 12:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357238">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=356935:date=Oct 2 2009, 05:01 PM:name=HeartAttack)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeartAttack @ Oct 2 2009, 05:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=356935">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Super Sonic. In all of these new Sonic games, you CAN find emeralds, and that's great...but you can only become Super Sonic ONCE in that extra level that opens up. What the HELL ever happened to the ability to become Super Sonic in ANY level once you get all the emeralds? I really miss that. Sure, it's nice to open that 1 secret level at the end of the newer games...but that's the ONLY time you can be Super Sonic. WHY!? Like I said, they need to take away these blast attack abilities and leave Sonic as his good ol' self, and then give him sweet abilities once he gathers allt he emeralds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Having played through sonic 3 and knuckles more times than I care to count, I have to say that while I do enjoy playing around as the super/hyper forms every now and then, I actually prefer not worrying about collecting all the emeralds and just completing the zones, so not having the ability of playing as the super/hyper forms in every level isn't that big of a deal for me any more. That being said, I'd make sure that the special stages are fun and it isn't like, nearly impossible access (I was only ever able to access the special stage in sonic advance 2 once, and I ended up failing at it :argh: ). I'd say, take sonic 2's special stages, alter them just a bit so that it doesn't feel like we're playing through the same special stages that we did years ago, and call it a day. Sonic 2's were my personal favorite.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well that's just the beauty of it - you don't have to worry about the emeralds if you don't want to. It's nice to be able to beat the game and then come back to it when you decide you want to dig in to all of the games little secrets.


    <!--quoteo(post=357407:date=Oct 4 2009, 12:18 PM:name=DimensionWarped)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DimensionWarped @ Oct 4 2009, 12:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357407">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The trick is in dissecting what is there and then putting it all back together in a way that is more than just carbon copying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Captain Obvious of the Day Award goes to you, good sir.
     
  10. DimensionWarped

    DimensionWarped

    Erinaceous! Oldbie
    I agree it's obvious. But I think it's something that needs to be stated. If you leave that open, you are bound to end up with something that simply recycles bits and pieces of the game and moves them around without really introducing anything new to the series. Like... the first Sonic Advance game.

    But of course, that was a loaded statement made with exactly that game in mind in the first place.
     
  11. libertyernie

    libertyernie

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    Include the ability to go back and replay past levels after you've beaten the game, so you can get all the emeralds.
    This is the one thing I did not like about Sonic CD.
     
  12. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    <!--quoteo(post=357461:date=Oct 4 2009, 04:36 PM:name=libertyernie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (libertyernie @ Oct 4 2009, 04:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357461">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Include the ability to go back and replay past levels after you've beaten the game, so you can get all the emeralds.
    This is the one thing I did not like about Sonic CD.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It was still very possible to get all of the Time Stones in Sonic CD—you just had to get them from Metallic Madness acts 1 and 2, which is admittedly far more difficult than getting them from the other levels.

    Unless... like, the big rings don't pop up in the level and I didn't notice. I'm pretty sure they do, though.
     
  13. HeartAttack

    HeartAttack

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    <!--quoteo(post=357460:date=Oct 4 2009, 01:35 PM:name=DimensionWarped)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DimensionWarped @ Oct 4 2009, 01:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357460">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree it's obvious. But I think it's something that needs to be stated. If you leave that open, you are bound to end up with something that simply recycles bits and pieces of the game and moves them around without really introducing anything new to the series. Like... the first Sonic Advance game.

    But of course, that was a loaded statement made with exactly that game in mind in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well there ya go. I'm just saying that this entire thread's point is to figure out a way to keep it classic, yet fresh.

    ...and you've got to realize that we're not gonna end up with ANYTHING - because this is all just conversation.
     
  14. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=357460:date=Oct 4 2009, 03:35 PM:name=DimensionWarped)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DimensionWarped @ Oct 4 2009, 03:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357460">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree it's obvious. But I think it's something that needs to be stated. If you leave that open, you are bound to end up with something that simply recycles bits and pieces of the game and moves them around without really introducing anything new to the series. Like... the first Sonic Advance game.

    But of course, that was a loaded statement made with exactly that game in mind in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Amy says hi. :P
     
  15. Phithpleis

    Phithpleis

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    A good classic game would have badniks that, when hit, release small animals. Hopefully the new Project Needlemouse game would also bring back the spinning sign posts, and those large animal-containing capsules at the end of each level!
     
  16. Otama Sanshiro

    Otama Sanshiro

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    I've been thinking about making a fangame too.
    Here's my take.

    COBALT THEORY

    Gameplay - Based off S3&K
    Story -
    Set after S3&K but before SA1.

    The Death egg is down but the Eggman still has the Master Emerald, after Hyper Sonic's chase accidentaly sent his World to a new Solar System. Dr. Eggman is now the Fuhrer of the country of Eggaristan and has ordered the Egg Reich a jihad on the Hedgehog. That's the least of Sonic's worries, as there's someone from the new world FASTER than him.

    Characters:
    Sonic & Tails: Still saving the worlds.
    Knuckles: Still madly wants to avenge Eggman.

    And without spoiling, Characters I created my self. You won't play as them in the first part, but definetly the one faster than Sonic in the second part, Exclusively all in the third part and all of them when the games are "Locked on" ala S3&K.

    Planning 6 zones per edition, but can settle for 4.

    Sure planning may be good, but that's the easy part. The game making composes of level editing, sprite editing, music, scripting, and other stuff. You might need help, and time, and alot of it. Traditionaly, Sonic fangames are never finished.
     
  17. DimensionWarped

    DimensionWarped

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    <!--quoteo(post=357483:date=Oct 4 2009, 05:04 PM:name=MainMemory)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MainMemory @ Oct 4 2009, 05:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357483">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=357460:date=Oct 4 2009, 03:35 PM:name=DimensionWarped)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DimensionWarped @ Oct 4 2009, 03:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357460">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree it's obvious. But I think it's something that needs to be stated. If you leave that open, you are bound to end up with something that simply recycles bits and pieces of the game and moves them around without really introducing anything new to the series. Like... the first Sonic Advance game.

    But of course, that was a loaded statement made with exactly that game in mind in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Amy says hi. :P
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Amy can go jump in the bottom of a deep dark hole and never come back, as can the pathetic notion in Sonic Advance that you can't finish the game until you've beaten it with every character.
     
  18. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    I never said that you liked her, just that she was something new to the series. And you can't beat any game after and including Sonic Adventure until you've beaten it with every character. I do think that any extra characters should have their own separate stories, Sonic 3K style.
     
  19. DimensionWarped

    DimensionWarped

    Erinaceous! Oldbie
    Two things. First, Amy wasn't new to the series, she was only new to 2D. All she brought to the table was a lack of attack-state while jumping.

    Second, while Sonic Adventure may have been the first to force you to play all characters to get to the end, Sonic Advance was the first to do that while not differentiating the characters in a significant way so as to make you do things differently.
     
  20. phoenixwright7

    phoenixwright7

    Cry, and my whip will accommodate! Member
    <!--quoteo(post=357432:date=Oct 4 2009, 01:02 PM:name=HeartAttack)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeartAttack @ Oct 4 2009, 01:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357432">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well that's just the beauty of it - you don't have to worry about the emeralds if you don't want to. It's nice to be able to beat the game and then come back to it when you decide you want to dig in to all of the games little secrets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Oh, of course. I'm just saying that it isn't all that big of a deal if a Sonic game doesn't have the ability to play as the Super/Hyper forms of a character in any zone. It's nice to have, no doubt, It's just not all that important, and if I were a developer, I wouldn't lose sleep over it if I for some reason couldn't add it in a game.
     
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