Can you please point me to the post on this forum where somebody said that story holds more importance than gameplay? Some people do in fact play Sonic games to experience the story, but I have never seen one of these people say they think story should prioritized over gameplay in development. They simply forgive bad gameplay if they enjoy the story. Just as some people may forgive bad story when the gameplay is good. But I'm still waiting to see this phantom argument saying that gameplay is less important than story in a videogame. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but there are writers in Sonic Team, right? Like, we aren't talking about the programmers and level-designers sitting at a table writing epics instead of making the game better. There are people whose job it is to flesh out a script, and that isn't taking loads of development time away from creating and polishing game mechanics.
I haven't seen this sentiment here, no. Retro in general leans more towards older Sonic fans, particularly those who started in the classic Era. But I have seen it surprisingly often among fans of the 2000a Era games on social media and other sites. In fact I can recall at least a half dozen times where I have chatted with a fan of that era and they specifically have said they honestly don't care what the gameplay in the series is, they just want the story to be what they like. So it's not like I was calling anyone out, please understand that much, but the sentiment exists and it isn't uncommon. And like I said before, there's no reason why both can't be done. We can argue all day about what the story should actually be, but "done well" should not be an argument, nor is it being made here. I think the issue is, the loudness of screaming about a better story from fans when the gameplay itself still isn't fixed. That's probably somewhat confusing to devs. And I realize I'm treating them with kid gloves here. Sure Sonic Team may have been a AAA developer at one point but until they actually show they are able to put out consistently excellent Sonic games we cannot just expect that of them. It sounds pathetic to say, and also understand I'm not a Sonic Team hater At ALL, but the reality is the franchise has been up and down in quality since basically the 90s. We all are a pat of this franchise because we love Sonic but it can be plainly said that the actual "Sonic Team" has not earned the trust of fans to know they are capable of excellence. Such a streak is only possible when a team knows what it wants to do, can focus on it and has the skill to do so. I dunno, maybe this is saying too much, maybe over complicating things. I just know I'd be confused as shit if I was on a dev team listening to different fans complain about so many different things, sometimes even contradictory things, all the time.
I don't think the loud screaming of fans for a better story is ever going to confuse Sonic Team to the point that they neglect making the game fun and well built. That'll be their own fault. But yeah, I'm sure those people exist, though I'm curious if they actively don't care if the gameplay is good, or if they simply don't care what it's like. I just don't understand why an argument built on a completely false statement needed bringing up in a place where nobody has argued against it previously here. Almost as if to invalidate anyone's opinion who wants the games to have better stories because 'nobody cares about the stories.' Sonic Team definitely needs to prove themselves, and I hope they do that by providing both. But We'll most likely be left with some sort of disappointment. They need to decide on what they want to do before listening to conflicting parts of the fanbase. I just hope the next one doesn't have boost. :p
What saddens me is that SEGA seems to pay attention ONLY on social networks, where casuals lurk. Am I wrong to assume that those who truly love this franchise gather mostly on places like this one? And I mean those who either love Classics, Adventure, Boost, deep or short stories, Sonic in general.
Does he still lurk around here? What was his account here? AH! @RubyEclipse. He sure could be OUR voice, alongside everyone else's from the social networks.
I'm in a Sonic Collector's group on Facebook and you'd be surprised how many people there have a picture of Sonic as their actual Facebook profile picture. It's even worse for the people who comment on the Sonic Facebook page. Those are the kind of people we're talking about. Those people aren't the "Let's drink an aged Scotch and discuss the differences in physics engines between Sonic 1 and Sonic CD."
"People don't play for the story" is kind of a problem in all of gaming. The only real exceptions are movie games like stuff from Quantic Dream, or games with a heavy emphasis on narrative and gameplay that's so run of the mill that they might as well be movie games, like most of Naughty Dog's library.
Looking back I see that my accusation that "no one plays for the story" was not a fair assessment, so I apologize for that.
lmao most of Sonic Team is Japanese, I don't think Programmer #26 who has been with the team for three years is going to care or read English tweets whining about what a given fan wants out of the game... given the script leaks it seems that even when Aaron, who is plugged into the English side of things, asks for changes, they just don't happen. Saying that Sonic Team listens solely to fan input for what to do is kind of infantilizing in my opinion...
Who said they listen solely to fan input? They do try to listen to fans, especially Iizuka who has done so consistently over the years, but no one suggested that fans heavily dictate the games and decisions they make.
When I was younger, I wanted something really specific. An open 3D platformer like Sonic Adventure with multiple routes, incorporating classic momentum. Etc. But I'll be honest, I'd just take anything which is well designed now, even if it's a direction which I wouldn't ideally want, like a linear game which is designed for a one time play.
I really don't think it's about that to be honest. As I tried poorly to say before, I think it's just that, we as fans can't even be guaranteed that Sonic Team will put out good quality games with good quality gameplay. Long ago we could but it's not something we can take for granted, which sucks as a lifelong fan. So when the quality of games is such a Rollercoaster, it feels like there needs to be some clarity in what things need to be fixed and the priority placed upon them. Talking about things like extra characters and stories just seems strange to talk about when the gameplay is still kind of broken. I don't mean to speak for anyone else but I know that's exactly how I feel when the complaints about story come up. It's like.... OK hold your horses guys, the actual game itself still isn't that great, we should allow that to be fixed.... I also would Like to see Sonic stories written better and have that in common with younger fans but again it feels weird to talk about at this current stage. Once again though, I'm not denying that you're right that we should be able to get both from an experienced group such as "Sonic Team", although we do know now that the actual Sonic Team of past is not really a group anymore.
You know what game I want? Spark the Electric Jester 2 but Sonic with wisps functioning as skill sets or something.
I love it, but it's not a pure Sonic game in that there's a lot of high speed combat like in Metal Gear Rising. There are also Kirby esq abilities (basically what I was suggesting wisps could do). Also it can be tough, especially getting good ranks. I'm mixed on the combat but the levels and platforming are fantastic imo. So is the music and aesthetic. It's like what SA2 should have looked like.
I understand your perspective, I just don't agree that we shouldn't be talking about both. Both have issues right now, and which one Sonic Team puts more effort into fixing is up to them (if they even care about either). Fans saying they wish the stories were better doesn't change the fact that the gameplay needs to be solid first. And fans are also talking about the gameplay issues, so I don't see a problem.
I dunno what fans are telling them to force Green Hill Zone into every game or to keep the wisps around. But they did at least listen to fans sick of Colors style stories with Forces (even if they eventually caved and wrote in cringe like "My friends are my power". If I wanted to play Kingdom Hearts, I'd play Kingdom Hearts. At least I'm not holding square all game. Instead I'm mashing X)
No fans are saying that classic sonic is nostalgic and classic sonic merchandise is really hot now. So Sonic Team is interpreting that as "Put Green Hill into our games since Green Hill is classic and classic is in".
Weren't Shadow/06's stories done by the same people who did the Adventure series and Heroes? Maybe they just went overboard and simply needed to be put on a tighter leash or something.
