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Wave, Storm, Blaze, wtf?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Artis Oracle, Jan 16, 2006.

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  1. Super

    Super

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    Well, At the begining, they needed a second character because people wanted a two player Sonic Game. Then he evolved into his own person, and stared in two of his own, although only for GG and could have been better, games.
     
  2. Shade

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    There is much more to him than that :P Like his past with sonic, and his love for inventing things rivaling Eggman.

    But seriously, I think overly complex character designs and stories are what's ruinging them (that, and there are too many of them). Tails and Knuckles are very simple but ingenious character designs. They were instant calssic. Nowadays new characters have like, sci-fi soap opera background or are hoebag government spies, and their designs just aren't that appelaing (You cannot tell me with a straight face that Rouge is a classic character). Tails and Knuckles worked because they were simple and to the point, and instant classics. Now they are ruined with dumb gimmicks like "Knuckles is dumb as hell" and "Sonic is an American surfer dude", in an attempt to give them more "Character".
     
  3. FinalBeyond

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    What I am saying is that at the beginning, it was all a bit too shallow, and there wasn't much story. Now, he has had the chance to develop into a fuller character, best emphasised in his story of SA1, where he shows a fierce determination not to let Sonic down, and to be a hero on his own.

    I think if we give the characters time, they may start to become a little better.
     
  4. Jayenkai

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    I disagree, in Sonic 2, Tails was "The other player's character", then once the "Storylines" were needed, Tails didn't really have too much of a background.. So, in actual fact, he was really more of a character when he DIDN'T have his background...
    Or am I just weird like that?
     
  5. Mystical Ninja

    Mystical Ninja

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    As much as I don't like the Babylon Rogues team (or whatever their called), I'm getting tired of people complaining about new characters all the time. So, they add new characters after just about every game, so what? No one had a problem with this back in the old Genesis days. Let's see...

    -Sonic 1 had Sonic, Robotnik, Badniks, and the animals.
    -Sonic 2 had the same characters, but added Tails.
    -SegaSonic Arcade added Mighty and Ray (which aren't used anymore).
    -Sonic CD added Amy and Metal Sonic.
    -Sonic the Hedgehog 3/Sonic & Knuckles: Added Knuckles.
    -Sonic Triple Trouble added Nack the Weasel (which needless to say, isn't used anymore).
    -Knuckles' Chaotix: Espio, Charmy, Vector, Heavy, and Bomb (didn't list Mighty, as he appeared in SegaSonic, first).
    -Sonic the Fighters added Bean and Bark (which they also don't use anymore).
    -Sonic R added Tails Doll and Metal Knuckles.
    -Sonic X-treme (before it's cancellation) had Tiara Boobowski and Gazebo Boobowski.

    Also, I didn't list Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, or Sonic Spinball, since the two of them were based on the TV show series.
     
  6. Super

    Super

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    Wait, I though Bean and Bark were from Tails Adventure? At Least Bean...
     
  7. muteKi

    muteKi

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    Yeah, and a similar thing occurred in the GG series, actually.

    S1, S2, Chaos, STT, and Sonic Blast follow the Sonic 1, SCD, 2, 3, and S&K deals MOSTLY.
    Sonic Drift and Sonic Drift 2 didn't introduce many new characters but made nearly all of them playable. Much like Sonic R.
    Spinball is pretty much completely the same.
    Both the Tails games featured new enemies and totally different styles of play.
    Sonic Labrynth followed S3D. One thing you can say for sure about it that's probably got you in a good way: NO NEW CHARACTER.

    And that's it. Basically, the Game Gear games, when viewed as a heavily redone remake of each Genesis game, show the same trend, a new character or two or three in each game. If they were considered the same games, closer to, say the GG and MD versions of Dynamite Headdy (though the GG version sucked), Gunstar Heroes, Ristar and the like, we would complain about them too.

    EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: If you didn't have a Genesis but had a Game Gear, you probably noticed the same phenomenon. After all, "Robotnik's trying to take over the world by turning all the precious woodland creatures into evil robots" needs a good twist every so often.

    It's how all games try to stay "fresh". Remember Castlevania: Bloodlines? It had a final enemy that was not Dracula but actually a sorceress they called "Drolta Tzuentes". All to accomodate a "fresher" game for a different platform, and to relate to the world outside of the game (Bram Stoker's novel).
    If you don't like it, tough shit. Nothing's going to change with this. New characters WILL come.
     
  8. Shade

    Shade

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    Umm...Pretty sure that Bark was created for Sonic the Fighters, and Bean was from Dynamite Dux.
     
  9. Mystical Ninja

    Mystical Ninja

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    Actually, that wasn't Bean in Dynamite Dux. Those were two other characters, named Bin and Pin. Bean the Dynamite was just based off the two of them.
     
  10. Trigahd

    Trigahd

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    Looks like I forgot a couple of games from my list :P

    Sonic 3D Blast: Flickies
    Mean Bean Machine: AoStH badnicks (if you count them)
    Sonic R: Tails Doll & Mecha Knuckles
    Sonic Shuffle: Lumina, Void, & the other person...

    Credit goes to Mystical Ninja for the post on MBM and Sonic R. I cant believe I forgot about those.

    The list was in no particular order, and I wasn't sure about E-123/5. You can never tell without a manual.

    Oh well, cant win them all. Since I knew Fang was in Sonic the Fighters, I assumed that's where he spawned from. Guess I'm wrong again.
     
  11. Blazer

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    Read my post again -_- I never said that the gameplay will improve even more if you a lot of characters more. I said that if will improve if the game has only Sonic, Tails and Knuckles as playable characters, and if they put some in the levels paths exclusives for some characters, as they did in S3&K. I said that I want the other characters to be included only if they fit the story, but no as playable characters.

    To me, it depends if you want the game to be story-based or not. See, S3&K was the first Sonic game that was story-based, and it had six characters (S, T, K, Robotnik, Mecha-Sonic and Eggrobo). Later they added more characters in SA 'cause it had dialogues. A game with lines and only two characters would have dialogue way too monotone.

    I tend to disagree with many of your points:
    Knuckles > Tails
    S3&K = most complete 2d Sonic game ever
    About adding more characters to have more gameplay: I found ALL of the gameplay modes by characters enjoyables, especially Sonic and E-102. However I would have prefered if they did the Sonic levels more exploration-based and if they had added a lot of pahts to them, instead of have six playable characters.
    Sonic Rush's characters: Tails and Knuckles would have better that Blaze because their abilites are more different from Sonic's abilities.

    The Flickies aren't major characters. And they have been there since Sonic 1.
    I don't count the characters of Sonic Spinball and MBM because these games aren't based in the SegaSonic universe.
    It is called Metal-Knuckles.
     
  12. Trigahd

    Trigahd

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    Flickies aren't major characters??? What was the point of that damn game again? What did you have to spend hours doing again? If I remember again, you had to look for them, and not just 1, but like a hundred, and you needed five to continue on in the game. Sound pretty major characters to me. They were like the Tails of the game, except they followed you a lot better. Plus, isn't the game called Flickie Island in other regions?

    Like I said earlier, if you care to count them.

    I wasn't thinking about the name at the time. Guess I fail at thinking. Congratulations at picking out one of my many flaws.
     
  13. Aquaslash

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    my only gripe against new characters is that older underused character could have been used instead. Team Chaotix was a step in the right direction.
    Shame they didn't continue...I want Metal Knuckles and HyperKnuckles back!
     
  14. Vangar

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    As someone said in a topic like this before, look closely. Every single sonic game has added at least one character every time. Its not something new. Deal with it, its been here since 1992.
     
  15. Shade

    Shade

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    that's indeed true. But the fact remains that they are not adding one, nor two, but THREE characters per game these days. At least. And its taking away from the focus of Sonic himself. Hell he only stars for about %20 of his entire games these days.

    Seriously, name one 3D Sonic game that featured him longer than about %20 of it.

    Its rediculous. All these new characters are NOT adding to the series. They are detracting. Im all for new things, but for gods sake they should be used sparringly.

    And I'm sorry, but Shadow was a good idea gone horribly wrong in execution. His character design was awesome, but they ruined him with a rediculous X-files reject storyline and ansgt. Nothing about that character is Sonic-y at all. He (as well as his game which I HAVE beaten before you say anything) are practically the un-sonic. In my opinion at least.
     
  16. Super

    Super

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    Well, Sonic Adventure has more than 20% Sonic in it. 16.6% in his story, which also had 5 more levels than Sonic and Knuckles, and 7 more than E102, Amy, or Big. also he had his Super Sonic story, so.... That more than 20% for you.

    Also, Sonic 3D Blast was all Sonic. *shot*. and I haven't played it, but Sonic Jam Might have been 100% Sonic.
     
  17. I hardly think Mecha Sonic and Egg Robo count as characters. Mecha Sonic was simply the boss of Sky Sanctuary and the Egg Robos were even less - they were just random badniks. And if you're talking about the Egg Robo from Knuckles' path, that was simply a graphical change to accomidate Knuckles' story. They didn't even remember to change it in Flying Battery, for cripe's sake.
     
  18. FinalBeyond

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    Except the appearence, location, history and gameplay.

    And wouldn't the un-Sonic be Mario?
     
  19. Shade

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    I mean Shadow and his game go against the spirit and essence of Sonic. Silly, farfetched, apocolyptic settings and storylines along with horrid level design, bad shooting mechanics, and hell shooting in general, do not a Sonic game make.

    Well, whatever. Those are my two cents, and it ain't changing. I personally don't think Shadow was a good installment in the Series.
     
  20. Scarred Sun

    Scarred Sun

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    Welp, this.
    May I say that as far as character design goes, I feel Rouge has been the best major character since Knuckles. Now, I'm not talking in terms of of actual design, per se, but the way her personality and motivations are constructed fit well into the Sonic universe and being a fleshed, three-dimensional character helps (as you must admit, Sonic and Tails are both rather static as far as character development).

    So nyah.
     
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