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Unpopular Sonic Opinions

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Londinium, Jun 17, 2022.

  1. tearsofxx

    tearsofxx

    Tomoko Sasaki you will always be famous! Member
    LMAOOO. Well I got a bit confused cause I did see my old comment and then saw this thread and thought it was new and seperate
     
  2. Mr. Cornholio

    Mr. Cornholio

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    I guess I can also say I'm in the same group and have sort of mixed feelings on Sonic 3K as a whole? I kinda feel the game is a bit too long, which I feel is probably an unpopular opinion.

    I feel the game could be trimmed down by 2 Zones and I'd enjoy the game more as a result. To be more specific, the Sonic & Knuckles portion of the game I feel isn't on par with Sonic 3's half until Lava Reef Zone.

    Mushroom Hill (or Valley) Zone is good, but the 'grassy hilly area' trope is already covered by Angel Island Zone and Marble Garden. It feels like Angel Island and Mushroom Hill might have been able to merge their concepts, as I find Angel Island doesn't really utilize the 'burning jungle' in much of a meaningful way outside of the collapsing bridges and the scripted airship sequence in Act 2. I also find the Angel Island Fire Palette less pleasing compared to the one we see in Act 1, and it's sort of a shame you're stuck with it for more than a majority of the Zone.

    Sandopolis is a strong contender for my least favorite Zone in the original trilogy because I hate Act 2 with a passion. It throws far too much at the player in one Act and expects them to adapt quickly while working against a time limit. The ghost gimmick while also having to deal with the infinite slide in the middle of the level is just a lot to take in on a first time playthrough. I usually consistently Time Over there, which I never do in literally any other Act in the game.

    Usually when I play the game through A.I.R, I just disable the ghost gimmick (and Time Over) and find it more enjoyable. I actually feel like Mania's Oil Ocean and Sonic 1's Labryinth Zone sort of did both gimmicks much better by separating them, and Sonic 1 has the benefit of doing the infinite slide trick right at the start of Labryinth Act 3. I used to revisit Sonic 2 more often when I was younger (and only really played 3K to mess with the Debug Mode), and I feel it might have been because of this feeling that 3 was a bit too long.

    I guess that's another unpopular opinion in that I actually really like Oil Ocean Zone in both Sonic 2 and Mania? Sonic 2's only real 'bleh' Zone is Metropolis because it has a lot of really nasty blind 'Gotcha!' spots, but I thought the rest was enjoyable.

    (Small Edit to clarify a point in Paragraph 2.)
     
  3. Londinium

    Londinium

    People actually read these? Member
    I honestly cannot be bothered to read the comics
     
  4. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

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    I liked Archie preboot more than both reboot AND IDW. It's way more flawed, but it's also way more interesting.
     
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  5. Overlord

    Overlord

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    StC had better writing than IDW does.
     
  6. Yeah I'm with Londinium for the most part. I did end up eventually reading IDW and enjoyed it but I'm never touching anything Archie with a 10ft pole, and the less said about Sonic the Comic the better.
     
  7. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    I think IDW is great for the current idiom of the series. It's not too bright or dark, it brings good original characters, and uses the game cast well when it's able to Knuckles.

    Archie was infinitely interesting as a result of how many characters, factions, cultures and locations it created totally independent of the games, but that came at the cost of some of the worst, most unfitting writing in the franchise. I don't think I'd have much love for the vast majority of that comic, were it not for how that strange, unfitting lore was twisted into something that could fit with SEGA's material. The series retcons its own value, in a way.

    Post-reboot is...depressing. I like the Shattered World arc well enough, it has easily the most well-rounded portrayals of all the SatAM and AoStH casts, and I love concepts like the Egg Army, bringing back Honey and Breezie, and treating basically every game as fair-game canon in one form or another (except Chronicles, obivously). But it's all potential energy. So much of what we saw was setups for other stories, and I'm sure they would've been good stories, but they're stories we never got, and while what was there wasn't unsatisfying to read, it's a story with no beginning and no ending.

    I won't be reading StC for my series until probably over a year from now, but I'll make a post about it then.
     
  8. STC and Pre-Reboot Archie are products of their time. Born from when the franchise identity was loose enough where literally everything was up to interpretation.

    That allowed them freedom to tell basically any type of story how they saw fit.


    IDW i


    Franchise identity is pretty firmly set nowadays, so that degree of freedom no longer exists. Shame too because I was honestly way more invested in old Archie since it felt like there was more progression, albeit at the expense of deviating as far from the games as possible.

    IDW is a much safer series as basically it doesn't do anything new for the franchise and any type of fan can read it, but it's not as interesting to me. Even the comic originals feels like they're written more muted so as to not overshadow the game cast. It's fine for what it is though and I enjoy it well enough.
     
  9. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

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    It's not just the franchise's identity that's set in stone nowadays, adaptations are just treated very, very differently today. Back in the 80s and 90s, the attitude was that the original would always be there, and that anyone adapting the work was allowed to interpret it any way they saw fit. That's why The Dark Knight Returns even existed. Nowadays, it's all much more homogeneous, partially because fans go apeshit if it's too different to what they're used to, and partially because corporations are scared shitless for anything to deviate off-script too much.

    If you look at Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, even when the original comic was first running, you had the Souls Winter trilogy, a completely original reimagining of the TMNT published under the same comic that started it. Then you had the cartoon, which again was totally different. But look at any adaptation post-2003, and it's just different spins on "pizza turtle" shit we've seen a hundred times before. Sure you might have a character design change here, or a personality tweak there, or maybe one or two new characters show up, but it's not a true reinvention of the formula.

    Nothing in IDW Sonic is on the same level as how many original concepts and characters preboot Archie attempted to make a part of the mythos, and how vastly reimagined the core cast were. Was it good? Hell no, but I appreciate the effort. Ken Penders may be a horrible artist, a horrible writer, and a horrible person in general, but at the very least, he had a vision, and he was allowed to explore that vision on his own terms. Hell, for all the praise people give Ian Flynn for "getting Sonic right", even he recognized how much potential the preboot had for stories.
     
  10. Taylor

    Taylor

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    I enjoy pre-reboot Archie as a weird time capsule but I can totally understand why someone would read Penders and go "this is shit, IDW is better." It's hard to drum up sympathy for the side of creativity if it wasn't often put to good use, at least in Sonic's case. I haven't read STC so maybe that's a more compelling example than pre-reboot Archie
     
  11. charcoal

    charcoal

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    Overall IDW is pretty good, I mean if you like Sonic's characters at all you'll have a good time with it. All of its original characters are pretty good, Tangle and Whisper for example are awesome! (I genuinely want Tangle playable in a game - her tail leads to so many interesting gameplay opportunities. It'd be sorta like 3D Ristar or the Werehog's stretchy arms.)

    IDW does have flaws, I think the art style is kinda weird at times, (although it's nowhere near as horrible as Archie's could get,) and the writing does characterize some of the cast in ways I'm not super fond of (Sonic feels a bit too high and mighty at times), but these really aren't enough to deter my enjoyment overall. I haven't been caught up since issue 55 but in the end IDW is a pretty fun read. I'd recommend it to most Sonic fans.
     
  12. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Honestly I don’t know how anyone can find enjoy StC with how Sonic is written, not to mention the slew of baffling and completely unnecessary reinventions of the source material, like Super Sonic, Metallx and whatever the hell Chaos was. It’s just not Sonic and reads like something written with zero knowledge of or respect for the source material.

    Penders-era Archie was also guilty of a lot of this too, especially his weird knock-off Star Trek orgy that was the echidna civilisation, but at least that era of the book kept existing material reasonably close to the games (or SatAM).

    I pretty much agree wholeheartedly with Shaddy’s take on post reboot Archie. It was this massive toy box that showed so much promise in its limited run and excellently leveraged what was salvageable from the fallout that caused the reboot while leaning much more on the source material, which helped to create a very “real” world in a way IDW just hasn’t managed to yet, in my opinion.

    I’d say this is because IDW is currently limited to only being able to show the animal islands, so a lot of the games’ most iconic locales, which are human settlements, aren’t used, and a lot of the geography we’ve seen up to now was made for the comic and kind of melds together. I was watching a video the other day which mentioned that the town in issue #1 has actually popped up several times in the book, which I just didn’t realise because it looks more or less the same as Spiral Hill or any other location. Even the most well-defined location, Restoration HQ, can’t really be placed in relation to anywhere else. We’ve no idea what island it’s on or what game Zones it may be close to. I think establish a rich, persistent world is the biggest thing IDW needs to do to start achieving the potential reboot Archie displayed.

    Because other than that, it’s a blast. After 20 years of Sonic comics, we’ve finally got one that’s a proper extension of the source material. The characters act wholly like themselves (Sonic has always been good under Flynn’s pen, but unfortunately was tied down by his SatAM iteration in classic Archie specifically), new characters fit much better among the game case in both design and backstory rather than being embarrassing and ill-fitting abominations that break the setting and the art style and, while the vision of the setting imposed by SEGA is restricting the book in some notable ways, it’s also breeding the creativity to use what’s on the table to its fullest, to the point that even the Deadly Six were given depth and presence, with Zavok becoming a strong villain and more than a weird Bowser knock-off.

    So yeah, IDW fucks, it just needs to properly unify classic and modern while bringing back the Unleashed continents and other notable human settlements to make its core world more tangible and relatable to the games. Given how much it seems to get put down on these boards, I’d say that’s the real unpopular opinion. :ruby:
     
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  13. Ok, here a one: I think Sonic's portrail in Sonic Adventure 1, 2 and Heroes kinda cringe. Heroes probably a lot of people agrees with that, but I think SA1 and SA2 are probably a unpopular opinion. To be fair, I still like Sonic in SA1 despite it not aging well, but I think in SA2 they tried way too hard making him look "radical" and "cool" (probably a product of time, but eh). I think Secret Rings, Unleashed and Black Knight did this better. And yeah, Unleashed and Black Knight even to this day has my favorite portrail of Sonic.

    Oh yeah, I think Prime Sonic is fine too, to be honest. I don't think he's that annoying and I like him being expressive and showing his feeling for once. He looks both cute and cool, for me. Not the best Sonic, but still a cool one.
     
  14. BenoitRen

    BenoitRen

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    Funny how a reply perfectly illustrates this:
    Personally I don't have much of a problem with it as I treat it like a separate continuity.
     
  15. That's kind of the inevitable result when you have younger generations coming into the series long after the franchise has changed into something else.


    Like of course a fan who grew up in the 2000's and 2010's are gonna look at products like SATAM/Archie and STC and think they're weird for how hard they deviate from what the franchise would eventually become.
     
  16. ELS

    ELS

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    IDW is awful, post genesis wave archie was a lot better. I felt they were already somewhat doomed being tied to the sad state of the game canon and following Forces which in my opinion was a very low point in the series. I don't like the OCs, especially Whisper who uses many of the trappings that made the setting crap in Forces. The way they write a lot of the established characters is just bad. Sonic is this doe-eyed optimist who coddles the absolute fuck out of everyone for no reason. We can't trap Eggman, he was a nice guy for two weeks and those expressions oh gee I'm so cute and scared. Sure we barely defeated the Deadly Six (which by the way, who was asking for those guys to come back?) and they swore to kill us all next time and they totally can and will try to take innocent lives again but we should totally let them go. Get a fucking grip IDW Sonic. We already solved the issue of how to reuse villains on the Genesis, you beat them but they barely get away how hard is that? Amy is not Amy, Amy is Strong Female Character™ who likes Sonic a healthy amount and is now a super hero. Her flaw is she's just too perfect but she's so good about it. Tails is just the guy in the chair most of the time. They made him Slippy. Blaze is so OP and her inclusion/exclusion is so contrived it borders on parody. She's basically IDW's Captain Marvel, she could solve every issue but she's off in space until the plot needs her to punch something. Every OC jobs so hard you wonder why they bothered at all. Arcs go nowhere, the setting is boring and often very Forces-esque, they give terrible explanations for the continued use of wisps in capsules but that's not just an IDW problem. The whole resistance/military thing was so prevalent, it was annoying. Sonic is about being free as the wind and helping when he needs to. Sonic is a force, he can have his friends pop up in different adventures but this comic adds them all at once, develops none of them and adds these really mediocre looking OCs to further anchor him down and take time away from the characters I would open a Sonic comic to read about.
    And you're not clever for using song lyrics in the dialogue or making meme worthy panels, I see you. You're not clever and it's distracting.
     
  17. Zephyr

    Zephyr

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    I think in the case of both Archie and IDW, the OCs are what keeps me from reading them. I'm reading a comic adaptation of this game series; these games characters are the ones I know and care about. If I'm gonna crack open their comic, I want to see their adventures fleshed out in this different medium, not those of some other characters I don't know or care about.
     
  18. Lambda

    Lambda

    Member
    For me it's like... the exact opposite. The comics are meant to be supplementary. We see Sonic and his core friends all the time in the games and most other media. I like seeing more of the world in the comics, and that includes new characters. (IDW's good on characters ATM, IMHO, but their biggest flaw is that they can't really expand the geography of Sonic's world right now.)

    I'm not saying that I don't want to see Sonic in a Sonic Comic. That'd be stupid. What I'm saying is that I like when a Sonic Comic shows more of the world around him as well. I want a wider spotlight that will shine on more characters.

    Don't get me wrong: It's fine if people don't like or don't care about the new characters or the comics in-general, but I think the strange reputation of Preboot Archie and (to a lesser degree) Sonic the Comic kinda taints the lense people look at IDW from. Archie and StC had all these strange un-Sonic settings and stories and characters, so I think a lot of folks get "Comic = Weird and Bad" stuck in their heads, and put that on IDW unfairly.

    I mean. Come on. More people know "Archie Sonic was weird" than know who Dr Starline is.

    I'm not not trying to change anyone's mind or get anyone to read the comics. I really don't care. I'm also not saying IDW is perfect. It's not, and I prefer Flynn-Era Preboot Archie myself. But I think it's healthy to be aware that IDW gets a lot of positive and negative judgements cast upon it not on its own merits and flaws, but because of the huge reputation of its predecessors.
     
  19. ELS

    ELS

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    The games barely give anyone except Sonic any meaningful screentime. The last game to actually utilize the cast was either 06 or maybe maybe Colors DS. Maybe if that weren't the case I'd be more open to OCs in a comic.
     
  20. Lambda

    Lambda

    Member
    EDIT: Okay, I wrote a novel here... but I tried to make it worth the read.

    There was a lot of dialouge with Tails, Knuckles, and Amy in Frontiers. And they're going to be playable soon too.

    But, I know what you mean, and I'd say you had a point about all the OCs with Archie, but IDW? I think they handle it about as well as they can.

    You don't have to like the comics or IDW in-particular, but there is a reason why it is the way it is. Let me break down the way I see it:

    Most of the OCs in the IDW comics are villains... which is honestly something Sonic needs more of for interesting non-videogame stories. All of his non-Eggman enemies from the games either are destroyed or become his friend before the credits roll. Comics are continuous. You need to break up the Eggman threats so they don't become played-out. If you want to say IDW spends too much time on its original villains or that the IDW villains are bad, I disagree... but that's a valid opinion. My point is that I think additional villains are needed in a ongoing comic, so they justify their existence as long as they're entertaining and present new issues for Sonic to deal with.

    I think what you're really talking about, however, are the heroes. IDW doesn't have many new heroes for a comic that's ran for 62 issues... The only real recurring Hero OCs are Belle, Tangle, Whisper, and now Lanolin: 4 OCs.

    Belle and Whisper especially have gotten a lot of plot dedicated to them, but something to keep in-mind is that all of the non-OCs aren't allowed to have back stories or character development. That's how it is with most licensed media, and that makes it incredibly hard to continuously write interesting stories about the core cast... so the writers will make a new character that CAN grow and change and then use them as a catylist to create adventures FOR the core cast to go on. It's kind of the way it has to be if you want to make overarching plots... which is what comics are all about.

    My overall point here is that it's okay if you don't like the comics, or the fact that they have OCs, but they are there for an actual reason. It's a product of the confluence of serialized storytelling and licensed characters. You either get Sonic Comic OCs or you don't get long-running Sonic Comics.

    Anywho. I've said my piece on the topic. Thanks to anyone who read all that!
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2023