Unpopular Sonic Opinions

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Londinium, Jun 17, 2022.

  1. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    Not because it's not about Sonic, though Eggman and Mario have so much in common (both fat moustached guys dressed in red with brown hair, Sonic also fights Mario in Nintendo games) it almost does.
     
  2. Vertekins

    Vertekins

    Wants to know everything about Sonic Member
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    Midlands, England, UK, over there in Europe.
    Translating whatever Sonic info I get my hands on.
    Please don't kill me for these.

    - I feel that Shiro Maekawa is the only writer who has worked on this series that truly understands Sonic himself as a character. The Storybook games in particular epitomize this.

    - SatAM is a great show on its own merits but I don't think it's great specifically as a Sonic show.

    - Ian Flynn is extremely overrated and still has really bad writing habits he should've shaken-off years ago such as putting story before character. He should never have been given the responsibility for the Encyclospeedia given his enormously lacking knowledge of the series, resulting in it's 50+ amateur mistakes.

    - I don't think that the series requires a reboot. Its concepts are very workable and to throw 31 years of continuity and such in the bin isn't exactly wise.

    - Sonic CD and Knuckles' Chaotix have what is hands down the best aesthetic for Sonic visual styling. Much more so than Sonic 3 (& Knuckles)

    - Scourge the Hedgehog is hands down one of the absolute worst characters this franchise has ever produced. He is in no way, shape or form the ideal Anti-Sonic. It was good that Penders “claimed” him back.

    - The Sonic Boom TV series was often obnoxious in its attempts to be “relevant” and sitcom-esque. Morphing Amy into a strawman to make a “take that!” at feminism via Knuckles was extremely try-hard.

    - The kiss in ‘06 is nowhere near as bad as it’s made out to be. Stupid and cringey? Oh God yes. I'll be the first to stand up and say it was awful. Necrophilic bestiality? Uh....No.

    - SEGA are correct and well within their rights to enforce mandates on non-game media. Especially in light of Archie Sonic’s nonsense pre-reboot. Their franchise, their call. The mandates are also blown way out of proportion by the fandom.

    - Silver is flanderized to an insane degree in IDW Sonic, his dorky side completely consuming him. The art in such instances doesn’t help, making him look like a Hedgehog version of Steven Universe. Seriously, compare the way Silver emotes in IDW especially under Evan Stanley to the way Uekawa draws him - They're a universe apart.

    - The exultation numerous Sonic fan games get is annoying when said exultation includes shit-flinging at Sonic Team. You wouldn’t even have a BASIS for your fan game in terms of physics or graphical assets to steal and repurpose without Sonic Team's efforts.

    - Shade the Echidna is a very boring character who has no discernible personality to speak of. She is more of a means of exposition than an actual character.
     
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  3. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    I've never felt so conflicted about a single list of Sonic opinions in my life. The parts that I agree with I couldn't possibly agree with more, and the parts that I disagree with make me question if we're both talking about the same franchise.

    lol opinions
     
  4. Meanwhile, every Classic fan I talk to on this site hates him for "ruining" Sonic because Maekawa didn't like the Classic games.


    Opinions are funny
     
  5. Palas

    Palas

    Don't lose your temper so quickly. Member
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    I'm sorry, who what now?
     
  6. Ashura96

    Ashura96

    HEROIC VERSE Oldbie
    Yeah count me in on the "Sonic 2 overrated" ideology. The game certainly isn't terrible but it falls flat in the later stages more than the other MD games. It also hurts knowing how much content was cut from the game rather it be something that was actually in the game or never got past planning/concept stages. It's tough to go back to non-Taxman versions of the game.

    It seems that Sonic 2 being considered "the best" among the classics or the franchise as a whole has come from the lack of S3&K releases in the past decade. Prior to that, I feel 3&K was widely considered the better game by more people.
     
  7. RDNexus

    RDNexus

    Member
    I consider S3K the best of the Classics. Always did, always will.
    Sonic2 is a nice and long game, but knowing now it's more of a mess of scrapped concepts barely stitched together soured my liking it overall.
     
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  8. Yash

    Yash

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    In general there seems to be a pretty steep drop-off in the public consciousness between Sonic 1 and 2, and then 3 & Knuckles. Their status as pack-in games at the peak of the Genesis' popularity definitely helps, whereas even though there were bundles with S3/S&K eventually, they released much later in the system's lifespan, meaning fewer Genesis console sales and software sales. Can't help but think this alone would explain why 2 is generally regarded as the best in the series by the public at large, whereas 3&K seems to be the favorite more within the fandom.

    There's also the factor too that S3&K being the complete experience isn't necessarily common knowledge to the casual observer either, and there's a pretty easy argument to be made for Sonic 2 being superior to vanilla 3 or S&K just by virtue of being a full game.
     
  9. Patrolman

    Patrolman

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    Momentum and Physics doesn't make or break a Modern Sonic game. Keyword Modern. For Classic its very important
     
  10. Just some people; I remember talking with Josh and expressed he kind of resented Maekawa's interpretation of the series for rejecting the Mega Drive aesthetics and personalities to an extent, and Overlord basically saying he think SA2 is trash and has ruined the series.
     
  11. Ben2k9

    Ben2k9

    We stand to Fight Oldbie
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    "Eggman" is such a shitty name. It's childish, goofy, and not intimidating whatsoever. Robotnik is so much more fitting, it sounds harsher and more threatening for a megalomaniac scientific genius who wants to literally take over the world by enslaving animals to become organic batteries for his machines. I actually hate the name "Eggman", its ONLY good use is an insult that Sonic would say to him to annoy him.

    Seriously, just say the word out loud "Eggman".... it SUCKS!
     
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  12. Ashura96

    Ashura96

    HEROIC VERSE Oldbie
    Yeah I think if Sonic 3 had been the full game on one cartridge, then things might have been more favorable for general public perception.
     
  13. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

    The Voice Maestro Member
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    Mega Man Zero: The Definitive Dub
    I don't like that Sega has a dismissive attitude towards fangames and hacks/mods as long as no profit is being made. Sonic fan projects are so abundant that I think both fans and Sega would benefit by working together so that Sega can monetize them, while at the same time, fans can have a limited amount of crowdfunding for their projects, perhaps a minimum of $100k.
     
  14. Londinium

    Londinium

    People actually read these? Member
    This reminds me of the fact that Sonic 3 was intended to come out as the full S3&K experience in Japan on one cartridge, but due to pirated copies of Sonic 3 being sold, they had to release Sonic 3 alone.
     
  15. Palas

    Palas

    Don't lose your temper so quickly. Member
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    Oh, I mean, I had never known about Maekawa's stance on classic Sonic. I'm a little bummed out, not gonna lie, but he's entitled to be wrong too!

    About Sonic 2 x Sonic 3 & Knuckles: I've seen solid arguments in favor of Sonic 2 over S3&K. They have a lot to do with S2 being a lot more straightforward and having less cluttered backgrounds, as well as better pacing. You're also not forced to use any particular ability to finish the game, and people don't seem to like Blue Spheres or Big Rings so much. I agree with all this, to be fair, even if S3&K felt like a more cohesive experience overall.

    Sonic CD still rules though.
     
  16. Yash

    Yash

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    I definitely prefer 3K, but at the same time I kind of see 2 as more like the definitive blueprint Sonic game. I agree with someone’s opinion earlier about all the level themes in 2 being sort of vanilla, but I also think a huge part of that is just how much 2 established for the whole series.

    It’s similar to me with the Star Wars franchise, how there’s plenty of people who would say Empire is the best of the original trilogy, but you’d never suggest skipping the original - in fact, the original primes you for Empire. Not just for the storyline (which makes little sense if you watch them out of order), but also that someone’s enjoyment (or lack thereof) of A New Hope is usually enough to tell if you’re going to be a Star Wars fan. If you liked it, there’s something even better just on the horizon - if you didn’t at all, the “best” movie is still going to have a lot of those same issues for you.

    Irony of that comparison is with Sonic, I’d say you can skip the original - if a total newbie to the series asked me which games to start out with, I’d suggest 2, then 3K, and then Mania. And if they wanted more, then I’d say 1, CD and Advance 1.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
  17. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    It kinda sticks out to me that all the works he wrote for seem to be trying to slowly step away from the traditional Sonic aesthetic, except for Heroes, and you can kinda tell his stance there since that game's dialogue is WAY more kiddified and lethargic.

    It's not that I don't think Maekawa didn't have some good stories (I think the Storybook games were pretty good for example, especially since they play off of the jarring aesthetic changes in-universe) but I kinda resent the idea of thinking that Sonic being like its original self just means a "generic stupid widdle cartoon for babies". In fact several 'darker' takes on Sonic have this problem, trying too hard to lean it more into the methods of their favourite action franchise rather than develop Sonic's world itself, to the point that commonly all the main characters look like out of place aliens in their own world (Sonic X's premise practically makes fun of how in-organic it looks). It just has a really pretentious feel to it.

    A lot of the writers are similar saying they have no real interest in the original Sonic games. Penders is probably the most extreme case of this, to the point he seemed to consider the SEGA/SatAm concepts more despensible than his own, though there were plenty others. Both comic staff, SatAm, Sonic X Season Three. It's not that I devalue any Sonic adaptation that tries something different or 'grittier' but they were certainly pretentious about it in places, and seemed to think 'darker = better' too often.

    I still think Sonic Adventure and the OVA are the best attempts at a more 'mature' Sonic on paper at least, because while they had some new aesthetical ideas, they still seemed interested in the core Sonic lore and concepts and developing the original characters and weren't overabundant in bad melodrama. They weren't ashamed to be writing for a candy coloured cartoon hedgehog. Otherwise however I find nothing wrong with light hearted Sonic, and in some cases feel Sonic gets WAY more personality from letting things be cartoony. The Mania-onwards shorts do the Sonic world tremendous justice without the need for anime concept transplants or even dialogue.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2022
  18. astroblema

    astroblema

    my name means "star wound" Member
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    If I were asked by someone who's never played Sonic before what to start with, I'd say Sonic Generations. Because it showcases both classic Sonic and modern Sonic gameplay
     
  19. Pexs

    Pexs

    Otherwise known as Spex Member
    Oooh, don't kill me for this one. My first Sonic game was Sonic 2 on the Genesis, and then Sonic 3 after that. I didn't get to play Sonic 1 until years later. Which leads me to....

    Sonic 1 is the first game in the series, and it makes me confused why the series ever got popular. It sucks. It's slow and plodding, and the argument that you *can* go fast falls flat because you need practice to do so. In a vacuum first play, the momentum weirdness of it is painful. I remember being *supremely* disappointed playing it as a kid - I made it to Marble Zone and then put it down. Didn't end up beating it until years after that (and even then, it wasn't really *that* fun*. I just beat it to say I did).

    I agree with Yash in that I think Sonic 2 really is the definitive blueprint 2D game. 3K is fun (and the narrative cutscene stuff is awesome), but 2 is a pretty breezy experience until it gets difficult in the later half. It makes playthroughs nice and fun in a vacuum. I'd recommend it the most to a newcomer in the same order Yash suggested, actually.

    Also, exploration needs to have less of a focus in the 2D games. Mania is an awesome game, but only when you go out of your way to stop looking for the Bonus Rings. Exploration means slowing down, but the level design says go fast - aiming for both is a cursed game design problem. Same for the Advance games, with 2 in particular being a standout.
     
  20. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

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    ooh ooh let me add one, I think Big Rings are a hundred, a thousand times superior to any "you need 50 rings to get to this point" mode of getting to a special stage - I think that the ring limit slows down the game pace and also that it disincentivizes using checkpoints, which strikes me as really backwards.

    Also the Big Rings are basically what the Sonic 2 checkpoints had become anyway - they really are in some nonsensical places in Sonic 2 that clearly exist solely to give you more chances at the special stages. Might as well just drop the pretense entirely.