Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Londinium, Jun 17, 2022.
They should bring Madonna back.
Captain Jack Harkness, the captain that just keeps on giving. And giving. Someone get the crowbar, he just won't stop.
But yeah, it's like faulting Captain Kirk for any relations with alien women, same logic if Two Worlds had continued...
...wait, they're not going to introduce Elise to the movie universe, are they?
Honestly, I would be concerned about the mental health of anyone who finds Sonic the Hedgehog sexually attractive.
Shadow on the other hand...
Shadow is truly brilliant in BBC
B - Bright and
B - Brilliant in
C - Chaos Control
I’m more offended that Sonic Team thought we’d believe that those two had any chemistry between them, let alone one that involved kissing
Well, they'd let us choose Amy in the game, right? I wonder if they run out of time or something? Amy kissing Sonic wouldn't be as bad as Elise.
Or Elise kissing him on his cheek, or something. Just what were they thinking...
I agree 100%. I have never understood this for the same reason: Sonic is a humanized hedgehog, which makes it okay in my book. That's not a defense of bestiality of course, because this is clearly something of a very different nature.
I think they have gone too far down a certain route with Sonic’s character for it not to feel weird with anyone.
I assume they were going for the princess Disney story… but I dunno. even if the characterisation, the script, and the voice direction were better… would it have been better? I dunno.
I would have suggested a magic tear … wouldn’t that make more sense since her tears caused the end of the world.
Oh well that game had too much for me to worry about that one scene.
That said, I do wish Sonic had a more impatient personality. He has had moments like in Lost World but he often just gets that ‘generic hero that likes his friends’ character. More toe tapping in cutscenes! I’M WAIIIIIITTTTING.
1. Chaotix is a good game (8/10) and needs to be counted among the 2D core classics and played by as many fans as possible. If there ever was an enhanced remake, it should be the same as the original, only with a few extra features (Super forms?).
2. Heroes was also at least an 8/10 and never needed to be criticized as hard as it was when it first came out.
3. Sonic Adventure 2 is still the best 3D engine that Sonic has ever been given, and the only reason it wasn't a 10/10 is because of poorly aging cutscene animation. voice acting, and the loss of Naoto Oshima as an art director/designer leading to too much "realism" and not enough of the "surealism" that made fantasy Sonic designs appealing.
4. Sonic Blast GG was a fun game and has a clever and challenging secret final boss. Maybe only a 6/10, but not as terrible as some say either given the technical limits of the GG system.
5. Sonic 1 8-bit, Chaos, and Triple Trouble are genuinely underappreciated Classics that more fans should've been playing. They're good on either Master System or GG. Sonic 2 Master System version might be able to be included among these. 7/10 titles.
6. SA2B's ratings are definitive proof of how needlessly biased against Sonic the critics were at points. They rated SA2 DC with 10/10s just months before suddenly giving the GC version (which was an improvement in almost literally every way) things like 7/10 or worse. The game sold like hotcakes on the system as well and remains a modern classic for younger millennials and Gen Z, just as the 2D games are classic for older fans.
7. 3D Blast Saturn version is the better soundtrack. In fact, 3D Blast Saturn needs to be more widely accessible (though I confess the Genesis remake hack is a very, very good improvement to the game)
To me, Sonic Adventure 1 was the first mainstream title that really aged poorly, and Shadow, 06, Black Knight, Boom (the games, not the cartoon), and Forces remain the modern franchise lows. Unleashed, Colors, and Lost Worlds are mid-tier to good.
The only truly bad titles to me from before 1998 were poorly planned spinoffs like Labyrinth, Tails Sky Patrol, and GG/MS Mean Bean (which is just portable Puyo Puyo).
Really, I think if Blast had a more competent Master System port, it would be a decent enough game. The level design is kinda bland and the graphics haven't aged well, but it's still playable and enjoyable in areas. The gameplay's not humiliatingly short like Chaos, or unfairly hard like 2 8 bit and it's the one 8 bit title where Knuckles is fully playable which must count for something.
The screen crunch is pretty bad on the Game Gear at times though, it almost feels like it was designed for Master System, and yet the port on there is laughable.
Pretty sure SA2B was rated harsher exactly because it was the same game, when it was (rightly) expected that some of it's issues would be resolved.
Also, Sonic fans put too much emphasis on review scores. (Well, that's not just a Sonic community thing, but whatever.) Of far more significance to me than some arbitrary number that really doesn't tell anything about the game outside it's supposed quality based on one person's perception of what matters, (seriously, a checklist of qualities the game does and doesn't have would be more helpful) is what is actually said about the darn game.
And I notice that a lot of times when I read these Sonic reviews, a lot of what is actually said is not far off the mark. Heck, you'll see the same criticisms coming from the fandom a lot of the time. Portions of it, at least.
Plus, critics (Read IGN) are nowhere near as biased against Sonic as some people make them out to be. Their positive reviews outnumber their negative from what I have seen, and even in negative ones like the ones from 06 and Shadow tend to make sense for the most part.
I stand by my argument because I inherently believe SA2 as an excellent title on release, nearly on part with the classics in all but art design and some bugs from the early 3D era. There was very little negative talk of the game in that summer/fall 2001 period when it first dropped, and new players loved it just as much on the Gamecube once it dropped a mere 8 months later. The negative scores hurt the brand perception (though not sales themselves, which grew considerably over the Dreamcast numbers even just on the Gamecube alone) among the less dedicated players, and I felt that did no service to the franchise at the time.
Sonic Adventure 2 is not and has never been perfect, sure, but for a 2001 game it was impressive on numerous levels. The best 3 play-styles from Adventure 1 were used for the core of the gameplay. The OST was solid, diverse, and memorable (though a great departure from the classic style). Shadow, like or hate him, was an iconic character to millions of new fans and remains a fan favorite for the younger millennial/Gen Z crowd. The engine was 60FPS on both consoles at virtually all times, even with more technically impressive visual detail. The mechanics still allowed skilled players to do some impressive tricks with momentum in ways that the boost titles later lost.
It was a well hyped game that delivered on the high expectations people had for it, even if it didn't fully please most 2D classic fans. It also created a new generation of fans who are loyal to it specifically, and arguably form the core of Sonic's modern fandom in a way no other title has. That's nothing to scoff at.
I wouldn't necessarily give it the 10/10 score that it got on Dreamcast's launch, but it's 8.5 for me at minimum, aside from the ways it's aged less gracefully. If it were possible to enhance/redo the cutscenes with more modernized visuals and better voice acting (even though I'm nostalgic for the original), enhance the textures, and fix some more camera bugs, I'd boost that up to a 9+ score.
And this is coming from someone who remembered Sonic 1's first commercials in mid 91. SA1 was a flawed experience that I loved anyway. SA2 was a much better experience all around that I was right to praise and hype up on release. I used to take my DC over to other kids houses to show the game, and they all enjoyed it and were impressed by the title. Playing the multiplayer with others was a ton of fun too back then.
I think this one has to be the most unpopular opinion of all time on here....
Spoiler: click for answer
I have never actually been bothered about/cared about the Chao Garden; I know it's meant to be a fun little mini-game, but personally, I find it a waste of time.
I'll take sort of the opposite route here:
A lot of the well received fangames are highly overrated. It's funny how some of the classic styled 2D fangames do the kind of mistakes we accuse the more modern official games of doing. Cutscenes and transitions, setpieces and gimmicks can go to hell if the gameplay or part of the game design doesn't feel right, if collsions and hitboxes behave weirdly or I have to wait and think too much fighting bosses. Speaking of that...
Sub-section of this opinion:
I don't get why fan projects, both fangames and hacks feel the need to add hard bosses as an "improvement", change the way rings drop so you can't abuse their invincibility mechanics, and so on. That's not an improvement, put a hard mode in your project if you want but let me enjoy the game, which is what happens before and after the bosses.
Bosses are good markers of where a level ends or starts, to have a break that let's you reset your mind, and, more importantly, they're good for showing you're the hero the bad guy doesn't stand a chance against. Besides that? I want to run free and explore, not get frustration by spending more time in boss fights than the actual game. Same goes for bonus and special stages, in terms of having an easy break.
Sorry, but no, I only played them to get the emblems, and made a lot of tries to chao races since I wanted to finish that part ASAP.
And I don't seem to be the only one, see below.
It's not. Many people don't give two flies for the Chao Garden, myself included.
I hated it in SA1 and loved it in SA2.
I don't know why.
All I want is just... For Chao to come back, you know?
I mean, when it comes to Sonic, I just think they're boring personally. Tend to go by rather quickly but, for how engaging they aren't, not quickly enough.
More difficulty, if done correctly, would only help. But I feel the same way to Classic Sonic in general so...
To call boss fights something alien to "the actual game" is honestly so weird. Boss fights are the moments in which you're engaged with the game the most -- that's when you sit upright to properly focus on what's going on, although it only works if the stage that came beforehand is good enough. If there's isn't a showdown, what's the point really? Pure motion play? Sonic would be better off with a Tony Hawk-esque core loop if that was the case.
I think the disconnect comes from good boss fights being tests of the player's skill, the culmination of the lessons they've learned from the rest of the gameplay. In Sonic...you slow down and look for an opening to hit the boss occasionally, but it doesn't really feel like a cap to all the stuff you did in the prior level. Bosses, if they were designed more like obstacle courses or required more in-depth understanding of the mechanics, would probably be more engaging in this series.
Star Light's boss was unusually well made. My only problem with it is that there's really nothing forcing you to make a move, so it's easy to be defensive.
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