Unpopular Sonic Opinions

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Londinium, Jun 17, 2022.

  1. Pobert-Eii

    Pobert-Eii

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    i just realized after writing my post that i was looking for something close to a platformer third person shooter
     
  2. BlueSkiesAM2

    BlueSkiesAM2

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    Maybe try something like Gunvalkyrie? I’ve yet to play it personally, but it seems to have pretty advanced movement options for a third-person shooter. Not sure if it could be called a platformer though.
     
  3. Pobert-Eii

    Pobert-Eii

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    Heard of it before and its weird control options. Will give it a try in the future! (my Xbox's disc drive isn't feeling so good...)
     
  4. kyasarintsu

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    • I don't find it fun to enter special stages with hidden entrances. They end up being super common and destroy the pace of the game with their frequency. Additionally, the dependence on "rub up against a suspicious wall and hope you pass through it" is a boring, overused method of hiding these things and it takes a lot of the fun out of exploring. I actually don't mind them being once-per-level things like in Sonic 1 or Sonic CD.
    • Blue Sphere isn't the best special stage. It's not even fun. The only fun special stage was Mania's UFO chase, despite weirdness like the barely-visible "walls".
    • I don't really like 3&K that much. Levels are too long and they repeat too many setpieces. There's an awful lot of annoying automation and waiting. Having a boss at the end of each act, especially with how extra-annoying bosses can get in this game, is especially egregious to me and it's in way too many fangames. I don't really like the "ant colony maze" level design and prefer the simpler layered design of Green Hill and most sonic 2 levels. I also just don't really like the way the game looks or sounds compared to the previous entries.
    • You may have inferred from my previous statement but I don't really like boss fights. I wouldn't mind this series doing away with them entirely outside a handful of plot-important fights against Eggman.
    • Sonic 1 is the only 8-bit platformer I really can care about. The rest of them are mostly bland and sometimes annoying.
    • Sonic Labyrinth is a silly concept but it's nowhere near as bad as its reputation makes it out to be. It's not great or anything. It's just... whatever. I can kill 30 minutes with it if I felt like it and wouldn't be upset about it.
    • Sonic Shuffle isn't a bad game due to cheating AI—the AI's garbage and can't even cheat correctly—the game's bad because of its abysmal pacing, awkward balancing, lack of content, and its plodding game progression. The economy is wack, there are ridiculous things like this game's Boo equivalent only stealing a "star" from your target if the roulette lands on them, duels are broken design centralized entirely around the Eggman card and destroy both the balance and pace, etc. This game has a whole laundry list of baffling and obnoxious things and I'd say that the stupid AI has no right being the face of the game's issues.
    • I think most games in the series are more mediocre or bland than they are bad. The games I'd consider truly bad (frustrating or soul-sucking to play) are Secret Rings, Sonic 06, Rise of Lyric, and the 3DS Lost World (I thought the HD counterpart was an alright-enough game).
    Probably a bunch of other things I could come up with if I wanted to, but I just got home from work and I'm tired.
     
  5. Oh that reminds me of another one: I strongly prefer the mech levels to SA2 to 1. Which I don’t think is that unpopular, until I bring up that part of the reason why is the controls.

    Gamma, like everyone else in SA1, is just too floaty. I kind of feel it trivializes the already pretty basic platforming. And I like the feel of maintaining momentum through the platforming by continuing to hold the direction of the platform and hovering, letting go right as I fly over the platform tk quickly drop, still holding forward, and jumping off to go to the next one.

    Maybe just a me thing, but I find having to wait a bit in the air due to floating jumping physics so I can actually land on the platform before moving onto to next one to just not feel as good.

    It could be argued the turning is pretty bad. And it is. That should be fixed. HOWEVER, even though that is a problem that should not be overlooked, I will say that the game itself addresses this with the hover upgrade. Simply use the hovering to turn and you Can maintain a bit more momentum, and that’s also pretty intrinsically satisfying To pull off
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2022
  6. Pobert-Eii

    Pobert-Eii

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    its that goddamned trouser-toting rat's fault
     
  7. Zycor

    Zycor

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    Beats me.
    Not for nothing, but aren't these kinds of takes supposed to foster discussion? I know everyone has opinions but they can still be discussed.

    The only game bosses feel shoehorned in, to me, is Sonic 1 but it makes sense because the first game almost never gets everything right the first try. For the limited amount of resources they tended to use (Final Fight is about the only zone that actually has a radically different design than Eggmobile with stuff on it, and Labyrinth zone is hardly a boss).
     
  8. Lol Labyrinth zone is (was) actually one of my favorite bosses in the classics.

    Going to be honest. I think bosses in Sonic in general are kind of boring. Part of that might be the (lack of) difficulty. But the platforming gauntlet approach demanding precision actually was pretty fun…

    …until I got better at that, too. And it as well became monotonous
     
  9. Kylegamer98

    Kylegamer98

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    Maybe "have no place" is a bit harsh but I figured that these "hot take/unpopular opinion" type threads usually have a bit of exaggeration to them!
    S3K is my favorite game of all time despite things like the Sandopolis Act 1 boss, but I realized something after reading
    so now I'm wondering, did S3K set a bad precedent by introducing a boss every act? Mania took it and had some fun with it, like the Mean Bean, but sometimes I just feel like a whole other zone or two woulda been made if there were less bosses. But I know nothing about game dev!
     
  10. Palas

    Palas

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    I can agree with this sentiment. I think Sonic bosses DO test the skills you developed thus far, and each one tests a specific skill that the its stage demanded of you. Often, you'll have to go one step forward and use the stage gimmicks against Eggman himself. Star Light, Death Egg, Collision Chaos, Casino Night, Aquatic Ruin (to an extent) come to mind, and they're among my favorites.

    However, they're repetitive once you're good enough at the specific skill they're demanding of you. When I wasn't good enough, I found them to be tense battles of attrition in which the change of pace would only strengthen the dramatic feeling of being part of a showdown though. I *want* the pace to be broken. I gotta fight Eggman. That's what I'm here for. If he's trying to outrun me, he's stupid and just an especially big badnik. Sonic's pace isn't even as frantic as some of you guys' posts make it look sometimes.

    And Labyrinth Zone's boss is among the best in the series, hands down.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2022
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  11. LockOnTommy11

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    Sonic Heroes is a good game.

    Seriously. You have a linear classic-style type game, with varied levels and themes, the return of special stages, and an interesting and uncomplicated premise which slightly differs depending on the team you pick. Talking of teams, the character swapping is just a way to change your move set, and shouldn’t put people off the game.

    Lastly, the soundtrack is great. Because of Sonic Heroes (and the follow up Shadow The Hedgehog), I’ve become a fan of the likes of Julien-K and Magna-Fi.

    I get that some of the side missions are a bit iffy, and completing the game four times could be a chore, but I enjoyed the experience and never found myself at odds with the controls nor the camera. I assume a lot of people played the PS2 version.
     
  12. astroblema

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    Okay I've got another. Sonic CD has the best special stages.
     
  13. Well, I have a few... mostly with Mania... so here goes.
    • The Oil Ocean 2 Boss in Sonic Mania isn't that hard. It's basically just the Original boss but with a cute octopus reskin and some fun Heat Arms at the side.
    • When it comes to Sandopolis, Act 2 isn't the problem act. Act 1 is. It feels same-y, and kinda goes on for too long with little change in the functional gameplay.
    • Lava Reef 1 in Mania just grinds my gears, simply because they didn't make use of a Higher layer to mimic the overlapping rock sprites. The retro engine has support for a FG Higher layer, why didn't Lava Reef use it?
    • I prefer the original final phase of the Stardust Speedway Act 2 boss in Sonic Mania to the revised one.
    • I simply do not vibe with how Aquatic Ruin's BG scrolls. Leaves in the background should not be going horizontally at a faster pace than the foreground!
    • Hidden Palace in the Sonic 2 2013 Remaster is just too short. Would've thought it would take at least a minute and a half tor reach the boss...
    • Carnival Night is fun to speed through. Doesn't excuse the barrel though.
     
  14. Nik Pi

    Nik Pi

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    General MIDI version of S&K Knuckles theme sounds better than MD version.
     
  15. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    We can have a discussion about the biases and culture that creates our media and how it reflects upon viewers if you actually wanted that, but apparently, you don't. You wouldn't be using the "it's just my honest opinion" defense if your actual take here was "it's just a joke". Are you telling me you don't believe the thing you said? Because that makes the accusation that other people are the ones with "purely performative" opinions look a bit like projection, no?

    While obviously it does take more resources to have a boss for every act, designing whole new zones is both a different skillset and generally a larger project than adding more bosses to existing ones.

    Sonic can have dramatic atmosphere without literally slowing the game itself down. One of the best Sonic fangames I've ever played is Eggman Hates Furries. That game, decade-old and full of crudely-drawn penises that it is (I can't even get it to run anymore), manages to make boss fights that only take a couple hits and aren't really that difficult feel like battles for your life just through their presentation. Look at this shit.

    Now, I'm not about to say it's flawless, or even that all the bosses are that great (frankly, the game peaks right at the start), but by having this kind of energy in a relatively-short fight (and by basically being a boss rush) it manages to flow better than most Sonic bosses from where I'm standing.

    I don't necessarily think the game is awful or anything, but it's not the PS2 version that has people complaining about the camera and controls. A huge portion of the game is set in floating platforms over nothing but bottomless pits, and you have to admit the control is looser than Sonic Adventure 1 or 2, which means you're gonna be falling off a lot. The characters' acceleration is just over the top. Both Heroes and Shadow also have this issue where landing from a fall while holding forward will give you a boost of speed, no matter how fast you were moving when falling, and that fucks me up every time.

    The stages/physics combo mod does do a lot to alleviate this, though. I think I'll be able to recommend the game to people once we have mods to unlock the last story without playing the game four times, reduce the overall amount of health regular enemies have (keep everyone at lvl 3 always, maybe?) and not make me have to play the godawful special stages.
     
  16. Hydra Spectre

    Hydra Spectre

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    Most of the Sonic games are good. Even Shadow, '06, Storybook, Lost World and Forces.
    The few exceptions would be Sonic Labyrinth, the Game.com version of Sonic Jam, Sonic 1 GBA, and Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric.

    Also, I love how the Sonic & Knuckles Collection PC General MIDI soundtrack sounds. And I love how it is basically how Sonic 3 & Knuckles would sound like when ported to the PS1.
     
  17. Devon

    Devon

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    • To be honest, I think some people over-glorify the original Dreamcast version of Sonic Adventure. Sure, SADX does make a good number of things worse, not gonna deny that, but the original is still a buggy and janky mess, and I find the core game design to be too bloated for its own good with the multi-story aspect. Not really a game that's really aged well at all IMO.
    • Sonic Adventure 2 just frustrates me and I really don't care for the story. Sonic/Shadow levels are alright, but the rest are an absolute drag.
    • Half of Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 and Knuckles feel like filler.
    • I don't really care much for a lot of Sonic music.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2022
  18. _Sidle

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    Every time I think I'm done writing, something else pops into my head, agh.

    - The second half of S2 (Mystic Cave, Oil Ocean, Metropolis, Wing Fortress) is the more fun half. I usually input the sound test code and start the game from there. Seems like I enjoy the more intricate maze-like levels compared to generic top-middle-low stuff that plays out similarly.

    - There are too many outright bad level gimmicks in 3K... Marble Garden flying top escort missions, Ice Cap snowboarding, Mushroom Hill pulleys, Sandopolis climbing ropes, Death Egg ring transports... and possibly more I've just repressed.

    - I will never understand how people can go on about enjoying mastering physics and pathing, but draw a line in the sand and say "bosses shouldn't exist." Learning patterns and finding ways to rhythmically pinball into them repeatedly is satisfying, and inherently part of classic Sonic's fundamental appeal. Saying bosses could be a tad cooler is one thing, but wanting them outright gone is insane. (Also the no-rings dual fight ending of S2 is an awesome highlight of the game, if that weird no-bounceback clipping thing on the DE Robot was fixed it would be perfect.)

    - Advance 2 is absolutely aggravating, Advance 1 is very middling (slightly above the average set by the Game Gear games), and Advance 3 hovers around or slightly above S1/CD tier. The trilogy at large is heavily carried in my own heart by it's truly gorgeous spritework.

    - The homing attack was an outright mistake, a slightly reworked insta-shield would have served it's purpose better. If I ever buckle down and make a 3D Classic fangame, I'll definitely be trying to make that work.

    - Mighty is a rather interesting character to play in Mania, with how much your perspective on hazards changes with his shell-armor mechanics. Hammer Drop's ripping mechanic and shockwave are also cool.

    - Wisps are unremarkable, as they're functionally just single-use level gimmicks that you can carry in your pocket, not true power-ups that add to your kit meaningfully. Might also be a similar situation to seeing dashpads and launch rings all over the place, where levels feel a lot less unique and memorable when they're included.

    - Making Super forms cancellable like in some fan tweaks ruins the thrill of the form, scrambling to make progress and refuel on rings, while avoiding being drained down to near-death in a possibly hazardous situation. Implementing a cancel removes all possible tension, and being able to flip between states effortlessly makes it feel less powerful.

    - In terms of Mania's minigames, Mean Bean should've been the checkpoint bonus game. (Maybe somehow earn shields or whatever via MBM 8-bit Puzzle mode challenges?). Maybe the vacant boss spot could resemble Blue Sphere somehow, activating points to surround and trap Eggman or something like the filled-square rings mechanic.
     
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  19. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    Sonic Lost World 3DS is good
     
  20. BlueSkiesAM2

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    This one reminds me…

    This unpopular opinion is purely nostalgia talking, but I like Sonic Advance 2. I recognize that the level design is not the best, but I have fun blasting through the stages.

    I really want to give this game a try but I haven’t come across a physical copy and don’t want to buy digitally. I guess I’ll just grab a copy online. How would you say it compares to the Wii U/PC version?

    Another unpopular opinion:
    I think Lost World’s gameplay style had more potential than boost. The actual execution is too poor to rank the game higher than Unleashed or Generations, but I prefer it to Colors and Forces. If the game didn’t ape Mario’s world map and level aesthetics so hard, I think it would have been more fondly looked upon.

    I believe it. I just wasn’t sure if you missed what OP said or thought I put that in out of nowhere.

    This makes no sense. Do you mean reflects upon the creators or how it *influences* viewers?
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2022