Unpopular Sonic Opinions

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Londinium, Jun 17, 2022.

  1. Zephyr

    Zephyr

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    That'd be a more comparable example, yeah. Though to make it truly comparable to the Origins cutscenes, we'd need to see such retcons in-game, I guess.
     
  2. BlackHole

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    And thus why I don't believe the Sonic fanbase will do anything even if they start dropping games from the continuity. It's always something else before a reaction is necessary, and any reaction before that point is overreacting.

    "Narrative doesn't matter." "It has to be seen in the games." "Oh, it's in the game but we can just wave that off."

    So there's your answer RDNexus. No, the fanbase won't get up in arms, it'll just be one more "eh."
     
  3. RDNexus

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    Guess so, it's saddening. To me gameplay is as relevant as storyline is.
    But I'm no gamer, I'm more of a spectator. And others also told me they value gameplay over narrative.
    Unfortunately, it's a norm, not an exception. So you may be right the fanbase may handwave crazy stuff from SEGA, if it comes to happen.
     
  4. Zephyr

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    Handwaving things and headcanon-ing ways to make things fit together comes with the territory. Even Iizuka has had to engage in it to answer some questions, like the moon showing up intact post-SA2. This is a series which has never had a terribly tight or consistent continuity (barring, maybe, from 1998 to 2005?), because, even as far as games go, this has never really been a series whose strength lies in its narratives (especially not in having a singular overarching one). Games have been dropped from continuity already (Chaotix, Chronicles). Games have been added to the continuity which were thought to not be there (Spinball). Games have had their locations within the continuity moved around (Sonic 4).
     
  5. BlackHole

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    But the whole story has not been changed completely, which has been the case here. They tweak things, yes, but not alter everything therein.

    Like I said, the cutscenes harm the series, because now they know they can change the story as they please. I'm expecting Chaos to have never been in the Master Emerald when they need it for a Classic Era game where the Master Emerald is shattered or damaged, and no one will care that it contradicts Sonic Adventure, because <handwave>. "Oh, it's an alternate dimension again, fair enough."

    I suppose my unpopular opinion should be "narrative and continuity is important".
     
  6. Zephyr

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    You say "now" like this is some new knowledge they've stumbled onto. They were always free to do so, as the official rights holders, and presumably, given that they did exactly that, they already knew they were free to do so, prior to doing so, else, I struggle to imagine they would have done so.
     
  7. BlackHole

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    I meant without a fight from the fanbase, who will actively defend the changes with any reasoning as you're doing.

    My apologies, that's my fault for not noting that.
     
  8. Zephyr

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    I'm not "defending the changes", I'm indifferent to them. The version of "Sonic's overarching narrative, lore, and timeline" that I can find myself to be invested in has pretty much always been the one that lives inside of my head, the way I personally fill in the gaps, connect things, and reconcile oddities. Because, as I said, this is a series which has never had a terribly tight or consistent continuity. If my enjoyment of Sonic hinged on that, I'd be reading the comics and not touching the games.
     
  9. BlackHole

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    You're stating that they're free to change what they please in the continuity. That's defending their decisions by saying they have final say. If they decide to include that the Master Emerald has no special properties in Sonic Frontiers, or removed Shadow the Hedgehog from the series, would you defend that decision by saying:
    ?

    As a fan of the series since the day I could hold a controller, and even before since I would love watching people play them as a baby, I feel we should make it clear when something isn't okay in the series. I don't like all this revisionism, changing aspects of the series history completely for no genuine reason. Same as any other series, looking at you Star Wars.

    By all means, counter me on that last one: what does the series gain by having Robotnik land in Hidden Palace Zone? Sonic the Hedgehog 3 has him look a damn fool for not grabbing the Master Emerald as soon as the Death Egg was repaired enough to fly, rather than building and attaching giant thrusters, because that's obviously less effort than flying to the Hidden Palace and grabbing infinite power, maybe electrocuting Knuckles if he intervenes, but what did we gain from it otherwise beyond Robotnik looking an idiot?
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2022
  10. Zephyr

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    No, I'm stating a fact by saying "they have the final say". That's how intellectual property and the like work. They are legally free to change whatever they want.

    "This change was good, actually, and here's why" or "I rather like this change, because..." would be me defending it. Instead, as I said, I'm indifferent to it. I do not care. I'll continue to make my personal timelines and disregard whatever details I feel like disregarding, the way I've done since the mid 00's. What I do care about are things that negatively impact the gameplay.

    And that's fine. Obviously if they're making things that aren't to your liking, find a way to tell them so, and tell them why. Don't let me stop you. I just think describing these changes as "harmful" is misplaced hyperbole. We can agree to disagree, there.
     
  11. BlackHole

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    Fair enough, you are correct they are legally able to do as they please with the series, I will agree there.

    I genuinely think it's harmful. But I will agree to disagree.
     
  12. Palas

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    Oh, I almost forgot. My most unpopular opinion:

    Wacky Workbench is a fantastic level.
     
  13. Azookara

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    My unpopular opinion I guess: I don't like Super Sonic.

    Like, I don't find anything particularly special about the form itself. It's not terribly exciting or awe-inspiring to see Sonic transform (same goes with any other evolution variant he or the other characters have had). Maybe if you're a big anime-head that loves that power level or "emotions create energy" shit I can get it, but it's just whatever to me.

    And if that wasn't enough, having constant top speed + invincibility isn't a fun idea to me either. I like playing Sonic because I like the quick reactions needed to dodge hazards, and the slope playgrounding to maximize speed. If I can just tear through everything and move at top speed at all times, there's not only no challenge but no real fun. It's just a power trip, which I guess to some is a blast but to me means nothing; and worse yet a really unsatisfactory reward for 100% completion (part of why I hardly ever go for all ameralds).

    Also the looping music is lame, especially in 3 Alone. But you all knew that already.

    So yeah idk. I'm not a big fan of Super Sonic. It's a serviceable plot device and it's totally fine and understandable for everyone that loves it, but it does absolutely nothing for me. It's part of why I don't care if it appears in a Sonic game or not in a playable state. It just isn't my bag.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2022
  14. _oliver

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    Not entirely sure how unpopular this is, but I definitely prefer the dark story in SA2 to the hero story.

    The levels are just more consistently fun, Dr Eggman in particular's stages are 10x more fun than Tails' ever are. Rouge's stages I also have more fun with than Knuckles', they're generally more fun to explore and feel more satisfying. Levels like Security Hall and Mad Space being the highlights for me, Security Hall is a rush trying to find all 3 chaos emeralds in a timely manner, and Mad Space is unmatched in terms of exploration, it's hard but so satisfying to finally get all 3. Shadow's stages are a little worse than Sonic's though, and there are far fewer Shadow stages than Sonic stages which sucks, but it's not a deal breaker considering I have so much fun with Rouge and Eggman.

    But although while I do prefer the dark side story, both are still definitely good at the end of the day, but I find myself revisiting dark far more often than hero.
     
  15. gabbagaps

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    I like Big's levels in Adventure and have no idea why they are so hated. I don't think it tops stuff like Sonic, Knuckles or Gamma, but it's a nice and welcome break from action stages. They have a slow relaxing pace in contrast to the past stages that I really enjoy and there are not too many of them for it to become grating. Though I agree that it's not a great note to finish on and I'd rather slot his playthrough in the middle.
     
  16. Blue Blood

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    Forgive me, but I always find comments like this to be so disingenuous. You really have no idea why Big's levels in SA1 so hated? Honestly? No idea whatsoever?

    Big's levels aren't even platforming, yet alone remotely speedy as people expect from Sonic games. They're just fishing, with very confusing mechanics. You and I might know how to move the fishing line, hook a fish and reel it in now, but the none of it is actually at all intuitive for a first time player. For the longest time as a child I just relied on hopes and prayers to actually get Froggy to hook on to the line. All of the other gameplay styles and character movesets play like variants of Sonic style. But Big is completely different. People don't want to break from the action gameplay to control an unlikeable character with an unlikeable gameplay style. SA1 already had the Chao Gardens if you wanted to take a break. Big was just wholly unwelcome.

    And I say all this as someone who liked Big even before he became a meme. Big is awesome. But it's plain as day why he's controversial, especially in SA1.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2022
  17. gabbagaps

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    You're right, I should have phrased it better. By hate I meant an almost universal negative response, not even just divisive, but maybe that says more about me than anything? I have never met anyone who liked it.
    Though I don't think there's anything wrong with mandatory non platforming gameplay in a platformer, I understand why others don't think this way but personally I don't play games for a "specific" broad genre but a more vague video game experience of me controlling a thing that can contrast itself like in this example. I hope I phrased this well.
    There is no excuse for the jankiness of the fishing mechanics and it understandably makes people dislike it even more, I just don't mind it.
     
  18. Well now I can't remember when Big is unlocked. That said, I do feel fairly confident that Gamma is typically who I play last. In a perfect world the game would actually start with Big in Mystic Ruins, with subsequent stages unlocked after beating them as Sonic and/or Tails.
     
  19. If Eggman blowing up the moon was something to take that seriously and get invested in enough to question why it no longer appears to be so, i'd expect it to have far more consequences.

    I mean, the moon's gravity is the reason for stuff like tides and, to a degree, seasons to a degree seasons. If the statement in the first paragraph was true, having half of that just gone should have much more serious consequences I don't really care to think up at the moment.

    Part of the reason I don't care at all that it appeared to be retconned, before Iizuka proposed that theory. I mean, they obviously didn't care that much outside "shock" value. lol
     
  20. Wraith

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    When a retcon doesn't affect any emotional beats in a game's narrative I find it hard to be upset about. Two worlds bothered me until I realized it didn't affect anything tangible in any of the games's narratives so I stopped caring about it pretty quickly. It's hard to think of any scenes or lines of dialogue that would need to be changed whether it exists or not.

    The 'classic timeline' stuff was a bit of a harder pill to swallow, since I think Sonic Adventure is about the characters growing a bit beyond the archetypes they were depicted as in the classic era. Tails steps out of Sonic's shadow, Amy stops worrying so much about his opinion, and Gamma proves that not all badniks are soulless machines. That stuff doesn't work as well without the classic games setting up our expectations of how these characters are supposed to work, so throwing their canonization into limbo was...strange? I eventually rationalized it as a sort of Zelda "split timeline" situation and called it a day from there, but it was still weird.

    Other than that it's a little hard for me to care, though. Even back when I used to care about Sonic narratives more than I do now, the mechanics of the chaos emeralds or the question of whether the moon was real or not weren't the interesting part to me. It was about the characters. Watching them bond, do cool shit, struggle and triumph. Any "lore" that doesn't prop this part of the series up is missing the forest for the trees to me.

    Even all that stuff is secondary to the gameplay experience to me, which I guess is unpopular opinion number 2