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Unpopular Sonic Opinions

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Londinium, Jun 17, 2022.

  1. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    And Robotnik looking for the Master Emerald in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 was told via Robotnik digging everywhere, didn't stop them retconning that. Also, the Master Emerald stopped the Chaos Emeralds in Sonic Adventure 2, didn't stop them deciding it was just a fancy green rock, did it?

    And you're free to think that. As I'm free to think it's the wrong choice completely.

    Not really. Just stick to the Japanese originals, they were fairly consistent. Even the two sets of Chaos Emeralds can be retconned to mean the Super Emerald and Chaos Emeralds, since the Super Emeralds are apparently in another dimension now according to Iizuka.

    I need to stress, I don't mind NECESSARY retcons. Complete changing of the plot is not necessary, it's arbitrary.

    He travelled to the island because he heard it was an island of miracles, that's not a pilgrimage? That's him getting curious about the news and checking it out. Like some sort of... detective.

    Also, what exactly is preventing Vector believing in God in the modern era?

    Regardless, as I said, it's an unpopular opinion. Clearly, I'm alone in this, so you don't have to worry about it being a problem in the fanbase until they start removing chunks of canon for streamlining sake. But that won't happen, will it?
     
  2. RDNexus

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    If that comes to happen, then the fanbase may rise up in arms against such changes, don't you think so?
    Surely they won't simply accept such things and let the whole franchise go to ruin that easily...
     
  3. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    They accepted Sonic Colours calling it Sonic's World, establishing two worlds. The only reason it became an issue is because lore enthusiasts started kicking up a fuss, and Sonic Forces happened to cause SEGA to start considering changes again.

    The fanbase has made it quite clear they don't care about continuity, because it's a video game series. "Oh, it's a retcon" will be the defence's rallying cry, and "It doesn't matter, what matters is the gameplay". And yes, the gameplay is vital to the series, but so is a good narrative, but I won't bore you with that old rant of mine.

    Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the fanbase were to praise a removal of Shadow the Hedgehog since it's a 'bad game', if they haven't already.

    When was the last time you saw the events of that game referenced in the games, while we see several references to Sonic Heroes all around the place? It's only a spin-off, after all...
    Anyone remember Gemerl? I wonder what the Sonic Advance series is up to in the timeline...
    How many of us hated the idea of Sonic X being the canonical course of events for the Sonic Adventure era when that was thought to be a thing via that leak, and how many were indifferent?

    So no, I genuinely do not think the fanbase would rise up in arms, beyond lore enthusiasts at most.

    But just consider this another unpopular opinion.
     
  4. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    I also give as much relevance to gameplay as I do to storyline and continuity (when there's one already established).

    Shadow the Hedgehog, while called a spin-off, closes the Project Shadow Saga, gameplay and popularity be damned.

    Never knew Sonic X was to be viewed as a way to confirm canonicity or so of games, that'd turn into quite the mess.

    If in the end the fanbase were to accept ludicrous retcons, there'd be something wrong with their heads, in my opinion.
     
  5. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Well, they have with Sonic Colours and Sonic Origins, so eh.
     
  6. Kyro

    Kyro

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    Im sorry, but what exactly did Sonic Colors specifically retcon? As far as im concerned, especially after playing it recently, the game really doesnt do anything for the "lore" of the series aside from introducing wisps
     
  7. charcoal

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    Wasn't the two worlds thing only stated by the developers near the games' release, never actually showing up in the game itself? I can't recall a single in-game mention of the two worlds myself.
     
  8. kyasarintsu

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    It was the item-carrying blocks, actually. You received powerups from these as a thank-you from the Toads you're freeing.
     
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  9. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    This is the key issue for me - in Origins he just finds the emerald instantly and then... digs around the island for no reason? Tries to relaunch the Death Egg and just ignores the massive fucking energy source right at his fingertips?

    This hasn't "streamlined" anything, it's added questions and idiocy where none existed before.
     
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  10. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    17:06 - "In just a few hours, Sonic's World will be under MY control!"

    Exactly. He has enough time to build thrusters, fuel them and attach them instead of just grabbing the Master Emerald from where he knows it is? "Oh, but Knuckles would interfere" he interferes anyway, and Robotnik deals with him with a controlled shock and blowing up the floor.

    But everyone argues "Oh, we just don't know why he doesn't just grab the Master Emerald" and makes something up to try and cover for it. Because for some reason, people are determined to protect the cutscenes...

    This is why I don't expect the fanbase to be up in arms when they do something like this again... if anything, they try and protect it tooth and nail.
     
  11. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    I admit it's a bit hard to figure out, but given Eggman was supposedly always in cahoots with Knuckles the whole game, that element was always implied.

    I was kinda under the assumption that they were basically teamed up to take out Sonic the entire game up until that point, hence Eggman not being able to try anything funny with Knuckles close by. When Sonic finally fought Knuckles and had him distracted, he had an opening. Alternatively he realised Knuckles wasn't gonna get rid of Sonic so just did what he pulled with Infinite, ditching the guy and taking the component he thought was salvagable.

    I guess this is why I think it's best the cutscenes don't take themselves too seriously, it's clearly just meant to be cartoony antics and Eggman is a bungling fool who clearly doesn't think his plans all the way though. They hardly pulled a Mephiles here in why the bad guy's plan is stalled by being so pointlessly complex, Eggman's SUPPOSED to be a grandoise clown.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2022
  12. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Where in Sonic 3 besides Marble Garden was Eggman "digging everywhere?" I mean he starts a fire, builds a carnival (I liked how Archie explained this right before it got cancelled, Snively was building Carnival Night and scoping angel island out while Eggman was busy on little planet, although in that lore CD came after 2), builds the launch base platform, fucks with the weather in Mushroom Hill seemingly just because he can, and then he steals the Master Emerald (and of course he fights you along the way in).

    Guess he was looking for the Master Emerald in Mystic Cave zone too :V
     
  13. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    Amusing how they also make clear their higher IQ Knuckles would NEVER forgive or trust the guy that did so much pollution to Angel Island, let alone make a running gag out of it.

    I do wonder how Eggman got away with all that with Knuckles close by (unless we go by Game Apologist's theory of wanting a theme park with no lines in return for helping Eggman :P).
     
  14. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Did you miss Act 2?


    0:16
    He's digging around Marble Garden Zone, ancient Echidna ruins, and runs into Sonic. Usually Robotnik's heading Sonic off later, not bumping into him mid-level.

    Imagine needing to build a center of operations while searching for something...

    Well, a Hidden Palace Zone is down there as well, and according to the US manual, yes, he's digging for Chaos Emeralds. I'll check the Japanese, see if they explain what's going on in Mystic Cave Zone and post it into the Continuity Thread to drag that over.
     
  15. Londinium

    Londinium

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  16. Dark Sonic

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    Yea I guess those are drill bots of sorts, I also wondering if he was partially digging there to get the volcano to go off to dislodge the Death Egg? And I acknowledged he was digging in Marble Garden. He's also a bit of a goofball though who occasionally likes random destruction so sometimes his acts seem to just be "because he can," like Mushroom Hill's weather machine or Sandopolis' Sphinx boss. For every serious motivation he then has he then does something unwarranted and goofy, like building a carnival for himself on an uninhabited island.

    And in the origins version of Sonic 2, ironically Hidden Palace is found hidden under Mystic Cave, but those emeralds are all decorative
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2022
  17. BlackHole

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    I feel like a blast of magma to the face would probably do more damage than good...

    If anything all he'd need to do is shoot the Death Egg's eye lasers as he does in the boss, rather than try and dig a volcanic reaction.

    Also, I'm beginning to fear my unpopular opinion might be taking over this thread...
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2022
  18. Zephyr

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    Setting aside that I don't think narrative really matters at all, to any substantive degree relative to the actual gameplay mechanics (those things which make a game a game in the first place), in any game or series: Sonic games aren't even all the same sort of beast when it comes to containing or depicting a narrative.

    The original games were very light on narrative within the games themselves. We definitely get more knowledge of the intended plot by reading the manuals, but not everyone who will play the games will have access to the manuals. If the narrative of a game is essential, and the narrative details contained in the manuals of a game are also essential, then anyone who buys a used cart of a classic Sonic game, or emulates a ROM, or what have you, is missing out on the 'real experience'. And I can't really agree with that. They can certainly enrich the experience, but they're hardly essential. Rather, optional fluff. I'll still say the gameplay matters astronomically more than the story does in, say, Sonic Adventure 2, or Sonic Heroes. But at least in those games, the meaty plot details are contained and accessible within the games themselves.

    The fact that Eggman detects some Emerald energy signature on the island? I don't need to know that to play through Sonic 3K, understand that the guy I'm fighting at the very end is a bad guy, etc. I don't need to know about that to appreciate the visual progression of watching the Death Egg launch, crash, see it from within the volcano, getting ever larger in the background as I get closer, before seeing it launch again and I board it. I don't need to know about what the manual says to appreciate that Knuckles is an asshole, fucking with me at every turn, before seeing him realizing how badly he fucked up after Eggman makes off with the rock. If it mattered that much, there could have been an additional cutscene, there could have been a text crawl or something. Things that games at the time, and earlier, were no strangers to.

    Now, until Origins came out and this began being discussed, I had never thought much one way or the other about why he was digging in Marble Garden; he just was, and that was good enough. And I've beaten 3K who knows how many times over the years. Seeing the take that he was digging because of the Emerald signature he detected, as detailed in the manual, certainly makes sense, and it's a good touch in hindsight, and I can see how that might enrich the gameplay experience. But that's incomparable to something like the details of Project Shadow that are communicated to us in the game proper. Sega saying "this thing that was never actually in the actual game itself is no longer canon" is a different thing from "this thing that was actually in the actual game itself is no longer canon". Wake me up when Sega says "Sonic wasn't in his Super form when he first approached Angel Island", or "Sonic never fought Knuckles on Angel Island", and then we can compare this to the erasure of things actually depicted in the 3D games.
     
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  19. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    SEGA said the Master Emerald has no special properties and isn't able to neutralise the Chaos Emeralds. That enough?

    1:04:50


    Why do these links with timestamps in never go to the timestamp?
     
  20. sonicthesnot

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    UNPOPULAR OPINION: The Sonic CD JP Redbook audio sounds totally out of place for a 16-bit game. Hearing a bunch of chaotic synth-funk on a relatively primitive 16-bit platformer is kind of jarring to be honest. The past tracks however sound quite good. Don't get me wrong, the JP Redbook tracks themselves are amazing, but the style would've been better suited for something on the Sega Saturn or Dreamcast. I kind of wish there was a version of the soundtrack available which uses the JP music but all converted to PCM.

    While I think the US tracks are inferior to the JP tracks, the US soundtrack does seem to 'fit' a 16-bit platformer a little bit better as they are a bit more subdued, ambient, and just calmer in general.