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Unpopular Sonic Opinions

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Londinium, Jun 17, 2022.

  1. Blaze the Cat should have been more used on this franchise. Like, come on, she has one of most badass design of the series. She's so fucking cool... I mean, fire.
     
  2. Josh

    Josh

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    I'm sorry, you must be confused, this is the unpopular opinions thread, not the "objective facts" thread.

    Seriously, Blaze is easily my favorite new character after the Saturn era.
     
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  3. Not really sure how to gauge how unpopular or not this is, but I love each and every one of Knuckles' play-styles even if they are often considerably slower paced than Sonic and/or Tails. Leisurely exploring each stage with him in 2, 3K, and Chaotix was a joy for me and prepared me for the even more lackadaisical play-style of Amy in Advance and Adventure that I adore oh so very much. Aside from Mania, and I suppose Origins, he hasn't any time to shine since SA2 and SAdv3, both of which I consider devolutions.

    Another evidently unpopular opinion I've held for decades is how the Carnival Night act 2 barrel is frustrating, but not game-breaking or even remotely significant. It was annoying when I was a young child and sporadically through the ages thanks to my forgetfulness, but not warranting of all attention and disdain it received and continues to receive. Meditation or, conversely, button-mashing, will get you past the over-hyped obstacle, unlike the actual issue of Knux' gimpy jump height making Sandopolis act 2 absurdly difficult if your groove is off.
     
  4. foXcollr

    foXcollr

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    Blaze got written off the moment they roped her into the plot of 06 as "Silver's friend", because... I think you know why. As much as I like Silver design-wise, I can't help but envision an alternate version of 06 where Blaze takes his place in the story and Silver is the sidekick friend.
     
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  5. Yea Blaze being underrated is the coldest take imaginable. She's probably the biggest example of wasted potential in the entire series.
     
  6. sayonararobocop

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    Is it unpopular to suggest that I'd like to see Surge, Kitsunami and Starline somehow get introduced into the main continuity?
     
  7. Vertette

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    Probably not, a lot of the IDW OCs are popular and it'd be nice if Sonic, Tails and Eggman had some proper rivals again rather than (in the case of the former two) reformed ex-rivals.

    That said, at least one of those might be tricky to explain why they suddenly showed up.
     
  8. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

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    This has never been an unpopular opinion. SEGA reps themselves have said multiple times that the Classic games were not about speed, they were about platforming.

    However, I detest this idea that speed and realistic physics are somehow mutually exclusive. You want an unpopular opinion? The boost gameplay is fucking great, and I want to be able to do the things Sonic does in the Sonic CD opening, at those exact speeds. I want to be able to go as fast as he goes in the OVA, the comics, and Sonic X. That's how I see Sonic, so it bothers me that when i play something like SA2, Sonic has to start at a casual jog unless you use a spindash. He doesn't need to do that, he can just go. Why can't I do that? If I can do all the things Mario can do, and Mega Man can do, and Klonoa can do, and Kirby can do, why can't I do the things Sonic can do? I want a game where I have access to all of Sonic's canon abilities, and I can actually feel like him, rather than play as him. Speed is a core part of Sonic's identity and I like that the games are focusing on it, even if the gameplay is admittedly shallow the way SEGA does it. Realistic physics are important for sure, but I would prefer that they be in service to speed and flow, rather than the other way around. Physics may be what the Classic gameplay is built upon, but Sonic was first and foremost envisioned as a game about speedrunning.
     
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  9. sayonararobocop

    sayonararobocop

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    They would have to get introduced with slightly different backstories, but I would fantasy book a Sonic Adventure 3 that introduced this faction as opponents and forces Eggman to team up with Sonic & friends for at least a short while, then Starline and Eggman can team together near the end until Eggman inevitably betrays Starline and we get a Super Sonic / Super Surge vs Eggman conclusion. I can dream, right?
     
  10. Josh

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    I agree! The boost gameplay, at its best, easily matches my love of the classic gameplay, and even outshines it in some ways. It's a fitting way to put Sonic's superpower to use given the sophistication of modern hardware, a controlled frenzy that blends the platforming genre with high-speed arcade racing, sharp and kinetic and infinitely replayable. There's absolutely nothing else out there like it.

    Suffice to say, I'm really happy we're getting it back in Frontiers. :V
     
  11. JaredAFX

    JaredAFX

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    I have always liked boost gameplay. I completely understand why people want a more Adventure-styled game (and I would love something like that too) but I think that the main issues that plagued past boost games (or, at least the parts of the games that have boost gameplay) is that they were too short. Unleashed gets slowed down by the Werehog. Colors and Unleashed are not long games. Can't speak on Forces because I still haven't played it (am I missing anything by not playing it? Maybe that's a loaded question). Like Josh said, I'm very happy to have it back in Frontiers. I hope that the claims of a longer game translate to a more enjoyable experience overall and not a slog.
     
  12. President Zippy

    President Zippy

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    After finally playing Angel Island Revisted and satisfying my longtime hankering to play S3K again, I have another unpopular opinion:

    The proto version of Carnival Night Zone is vastly superior to the Michael Jackson team's music in both acts. The MJ/Brad Buxer version of CNZ is too sparse and too slow for a carnival level filled with bright lights, balloons, and contraptions that spin in circles and launch you at high speeds. The rhythm and bass parts just sound like a decaffeinated remix of "Jam" or "Dangerous".

    But nonetheless, I had a lot more fun than the poor suckers who bought that glitchy compilation infected with Denuvo malware.

    I have a similar complaint about Launch Base Zone, especially Act 1. It's still better than the melodically predictable and downright boring processional march of the proto version, but it just doesn't have much going on. It's like a backing track to an underground rap battle. I previously mentioned the Sean Evans/Leila Wilson Sonic 3 alternate soundtrack in the Sonic Origins thread, but it's worth stating again that they made the definitive version of Launch Base:



    Note how it teases the Death Egg Zone theme, and then abruptly cuts to a sour note. It really foreshadows the failed launch, like a false start in a footrace!

    I don't think we disagree here. I think the high level of replayability is intentional and the desire to find shortcuts and finish faster is part of the appeal, e.g. that clever Chemical Plant Act 2 shortcut that skips the rising water obstacle. I just don't think passively watching Sonic rocket through a chain of loops and unimpeded curved paths was "the reward", especially when most of the sections like that where the game plays itself are only the 2nd fastest way to get through the level. Usually, those sections are also part of the path that most people follow on their first playthrough, the one that involves the least intervention from the player.

    Come to think of it, the Chemical Plant Act 2 shortcut is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. It's probably the only time in Sonic 2 where you're rewarded for stopping dead in your tracks and going left.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2022
  13. I'm gonna come out and say that while I like the Boost games well enough as games, I feel the division comes from the fact that they're not very good platforming games. Boost more or less tosses out any and all semblances of being a platformer, and that's the part that kind of frustrates me because they insist on calling them that when they're anything but. I don't think there would be as much pushback against Boost if Sega just went and actually made a game that resembles a platformer again, but they stubbornly refuse to do that.

    It frustrates me personally because it's turned what was once a franchise that tons of depth in terms of gameplay into one that relies on spectacle to sell itself to the audience. And that's fine in a vacuum, I have no problem with spectacle based games and sure, Sonic was basically sold off how radical, cool, and awesome he was. But personally I am someone who prefers games that have an easy point of entry, but have a high ceiling to master and Sonic used to function that way, even in the early Boost games like Unleashed. Then by the time Forces rolled around, Sega decided that the games need to play themselves because "they're too hard". It feels like they're sucking any and all potentially interesting things out of these games and it's driving me up the wall.

    ITs why I don't feel inclined to even purchase Sonic games nowadays, because I know once that initial playthrough is over, I have basically seen everything the game has to offer. They're like fireworks, they look pretty in the moment but they're over as quickly as they arrive. And it kind of bums me out that this is how Sonic is going to be seen as for the foreseeable future; not a series with depth that could stand with the greats of modern gaming, but a spectacle showcase that leaves no lasting impact.

    You can argue that reflects the modern gaming environment but then I've been rather jaded about the gaming industry as a whole as of late, so there you go. And I'm really TRYING to reconcile what Sonic is nowadays versus what I feel like he could be, but I just can't shake the feeling that these current games just aren't worth my time and I could be playing something better and I don't feel like I should force myself to. Its a terrible feeling to have about something you used to hold in such high regard, and I envy the people who can just enjoy these games for what they are but I'm just not like that. I like what I like, and I want what I want and Modern Sonic simply ain't providing it and I don't feel like I should settle for anything less.

    I truly respect the fangame scene and the comics for maintaining my interest, but the official products just aren't it for me right now.
     
  14. E-122-Psi

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    Starline might have problems because he is officially dead according to Flynn.

    I think the potential of adapting other continuity characters depends on how well their tone and premise match the games, and if not, just to what degree the alterations needed make it worth even trying in the end.

    Starline for example I could see being compatible with the games, he's basically that doting minion that becomes disallusioned as he realises how selfish and seemingly incompetent his boss is. Within the more light hearted modern games and their lower key Eggman however, he'd likely be closer to Dave the Intern over Starline.

    (On that topic, I wouldn't mind the Lightning Bolts being adapted though, just for that anti climatic twenty second boss of you lightly tapping right to dodge party food. :P)
     
  15. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    You know what, let's get my full list of unpopular opinions:
    • The boost gameplay is the absolute best Sonic has ever been in 3D and 100% recaptures the spirit and design mentality of the classics when done right.
    • Sonic Adventure 2 sucks ass outside of the graphics, music, and Sonic and Shadow levels
    • Story in a Sonic game should be minimal, 3K is the most story you need in a Sonic game. Sonic games SUCK when they focus too much on story, keep it in the comics
    • Chao are massively overrated and the Wisps are so much better and I don't care if they appear in every Sonic game, the only enjoyment I got out of the Chao garden is kicking and slapping the little shits my GOD they're so kickable
    • Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles are the only characters who need to be playable
    • Sonic and the Black Knight is awesome, FUCK you
    • Takashi Iizuka is a chad
    • MJ crew Carnival Night music is fantastic and significantly better than the proto/PC music
    • David Wise should compose the next Sonic game
    • they should finish Sonic X-treme for the Sega Saturn
     
  16. This was the first Sonic game I straight up intentionally skipped, something I’ve only ever done twice (Boom was the second instance), but all the zoomers praising it on YouTube led me to finally order it the other day though lol. I’m not as picky and cynical as I used to be, so I’m looking forward to playing it.

    Do you know if it has the JP voiceover?
     
  17. nineko

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    Agreed, I like cutscenes and intermissions, but that's where I draw the line. As much as I don't particularly like Sonic 3D, for example, I like how it conveys the story.

    Bonus points if those things are skippable in case you already played the game. The 8-bit Sonic 2 and Triple Trouble did it right. Some of the cutscenes in S3&K instead are borderline too long, I don't need to see the Flying Battery at the end of MHZ2 all the times, let me press the start button if I want to. And that pillar at the end of SSZ1? Sure I loved it the first time I saw Sonic running in circle, but I can do without it after I watched it for almost 30 years.

    Btw this is true in general, e.g. I'd love to be able to press Start at the beginning of Super Mario 64, I know that Peach baked a cake for Mario by now.
    Agreed.
     
  18. Josh

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    Secret Rings did, so I'm pretty sure it does. I did my first full replay of Secret Rings since 2007, and enjoyed the story and dialogue SO much more than I did back then, just because I swapped to the JP voices. Actually, I had the same experience replaying Unleashed! I mean, I'm sure the 4kids cast is great if you grew up with 'em (Jaleel White will always be Sonic to me, I get it), but they'll probably always represent Sonic stories at their Most Cringe to me, haha. Still, as much praise as I've heard for Griffith's performance in Black Knight, I'll at least give the dub a try whenever I get around to playing it.

    Agree about the first half of that sentence. I think it captures the design mentality of one of the most important aspects of the classics (the game is built for replayability, and becomes more fun/you show off more spectacle by improving your skill), but the classics found wider appeal than the 3D entries partly because they were good at acclimating to different player approaches. As rewarding as they are to speed run, the boost games, like the SA2 lineage they evolved from, aren't usually particularly interesting if you try to slow down and explore, and they aren't really built around exploiting the quirks and nuances of a robust physics engine. Don't get me wrong, they ARE my favorite approach to 3D Sonic, but 3D Sonic has always been this divisive thing because not everyone felt it lived up to (or was even trying to live up to) the classics.

    I mean, I wouldn't put it THAT harshly, but in broad strokes I agree with all of these. xD SA2 is absolute mediocrity outside of the speed stages, Sonic stories are at their best when nobody's talking (the intro to Unleashed comes to mind) (maybe hiring the comics writer to write for the games will help though), and while I don't like calling anything overrated, I don't get the appeal of Chao at all. I've kind of had to try NOT to grow a resentment toward them, given how every Sonic game announcement comes with a dozen hilarious jokes about how they "won't play it unless they bring back the Chao Garden." Like, bully for you, but I actually like playing Sonic games and would prefer they make that focus. xD

    It depends on what kind of game we're making, but generally, I'm pretty ambivalent about anyone other that Sonic, myself. Which doesn't mean I'm OPPOSED to other characters, of course. More that they need to nail Sonic's fundamentals, then build other characters/playstyles off of that. Which is why Tails & Knuckles are generally so popular, because (with one mech-shaped exception) that's what they've always been.

    Like we said at the top of the page, I'd love to get Blaze in another game!

    Haven't played it, but if I hate it, I'll be sure to get fucked!

    PREACH!

    I'd say the same about Ice Cap, but I've been playing with the proto tracks in Origins (via a mod that restores them to the actual proto tracks), and Proto Carnival Night has surprisingly grown on me. I still definitely prefer the MJ original, and I agree it's fantastic (really sells the danger and unease of Robotnik building a fucking carnival on Knuckles' island just because he CAN), but the proto music's a nice change of pace.

    See, now I know you wrote this as bait for me, which is why I decided it warranted a full response. ;)

    Justice for Tiara Boobowski! (Can we finally get Sonic the Fighters on Saturn while we're at it?)
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2022
  19. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    Since we're talking about how great the boost games are (turns out it's not an unpopular opinion after all!), here's something relevant:

    I like the Classic/Modern split in the sense that it means we can get new classic games alongside new modern games (at least in theory... doesn't seem like much has actually happened on that front though), but there's a cleaner way to do it that doesn't require timeline splits - use the fact that you have a billion characters instead.

    Modern/Boost-style games should continue to use Sonic, and emphasise his speed. Lean more into the Unleashed style of being essentially a racing game with little platforming, as that's where the Boost style shines brightest. Tell dramatic but not dark stories about the core trio vs. Eggman and his creations.

    Adventure-style games could make a return, using Shadow as a focus. Build on Adventure 2's foundations with more open level design and focus on platforming. This can include multiple playstyles too, with Rouge, Omega, Silver, and Blaze joining similar to their '06 playstyles (... but obviously less broken) and tell darker stories, perhaps with a monster-of-the-week format with villains like Black Doom.

    Classic-style games continue, with Mighty taking the lead. Emphasis on momentum-based platforming, vertical level design, we all know the drill. Throw in Ray, Espio, Charmy, and Vector as alternate playstyles and Fang as a villain (with Bean and Bark being either henchmen or just going their own way) with simple stories that are told through setpieces rather than cutscenes and dialogue.

    And finally, Chao Gardens return featuring Cream and Big in minigames to collect the various animals/foods needed to feed the Chao.

    Characters from one style aren't exclusive to that style (if a Boost game wants to include Blaze it can, for example) but you'd basically have "Sonic games", "Shadow games", and "Mighty games", and you'd know exactly what you're getting in for without needing to ask "what kind?"


    TL;DR: my unpopular opinion is I want the fanbase to be even more fractured, and explicitly so.
     
  20. Josh

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