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Unpopular Sonic Opinions

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Londinium, Jun 17, 2022.

  1. charcoal

    charcoal

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    I love the taxman remakes but yeah them making the Sonic 1 special stages smoothly rotate just for the sake of it feels like a really odd decision. It fucks with the feel of the stages a lot and kills your muscle memory, in Superstars it's okay because the layouts are designed around it (and it's 3D so they couldn't have done it non-smoothly) but I don't know what the thought process behind it was here.
     
  2. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    I've been critical of the mobile remakes since long before Origins was a thing. But really that's beside the point. The topic at hand was specifically regarding the special stages, and the Whitehead version of Sonic 1's special stage is completely screwed up.
     
  3. HammerKirby

    HammerKirby

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    I wasn't trying to call you out specifically. It just feels like I've heard more criticism of those versions since then. When it comes to the special stages specifically, I never really noticed the smooth scrolling, but it's probably been about 8 years since I've got all the Chaos Emeralds in the Genesis version, but now that I think about it, it does feel like I had an easier time doing it then then I do on mobile or Origins.
     
  4. Mr. Cornholio

    Mr. Cornholio

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    See I guess I'm the weirdo because I've seen people praise the Taxman port of Sonic 2's Special Stages saying they feel a lot smoother, but to me they feel like they play worse compared to the Genesis originals? I guess that's my unpopular take here.

    The characters feel like they stick on the sides a lot less frequently, so lining up the character with a trail of Rings feels a bit more difficult. My muscle memory is thrown off every single time. The only thing that felt like a real improvement was fixing that obnoxious issue where Tails could get ahead and his AI having a second delay could destroy a run.

    Maybe I'd have to play all 7 Stages from both versions again side-by-side to get a better feel for it, but I usually found myself liking the ones in the Genesis original more, which most people say are a bit too trial-and-error-y.

    Otherwise I feel the mobile ports/decomps are really the best way to play 1/CD/2. I like the smoother gameplay and widescreen a bit too much, but I can still switch back to the Genesis/CD originals without feeling like my muscle memory is thrown off completely.

    I think a lot of it is the increased exposure to these versions of the game emerging in recent years. For a good while, the only way to play the game was through mobile devices. With touch controls.

    And uh those aren't great for a lot of people. Setting up a Bluetooth controller and manually hiding the touch controls was also a bit of a pain.

    So now that they're a lot easier to access, I think people are probably going to analyze these a little more closely. I love them myself though.
     
  5. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    With the Sonic 2 halfpipe, I think the mobile remake's real 3D perspective makes them worse than the original for me. Something about the point at which the hazards become visible is different. It's like my reaction time is reduced rather than improved.

    And yeah I'm sure it's just greater exposure to the issues the remakes have since Origins came out. It's kind of like Sonic CD in the '90s (before my time). Most people seemed to call it one of if not the best Sonic game for a long time, and that assertion could rarely be challenged because barely anyone else could play the game. But after it started getting more re-releases its quality became a much more controversial subject.
     
  6. Jaxer

    Jaxer

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    I've always capital H hated the Sonic 2 halfpipes. If something is pure and utter memorization, it's them. I've never been able to beat them in the original Mega Drive release, no matter how much pause scumming I was doing. And while Whitehead's remake doesn't fix the unfair bomb placement, the improved draw distance alone is such a godsend that I don't even mind if their controls and physics are ever so slightly wrong. The Sonic 1 remake's Special Stages are the only inferior ones in my opinion.

    And speaking of pre-Origins criticism of the remakes, I've noticed that speedrunners of the Mega Drive originals have always been rather vocal about disliking them.
     
  7. HammerKirby

    HammerKirby

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    Tbh it may sound like I'm complaining about the increased complaints. It has helped me realize I'm not crazy about certain things. Like I always subconsiously noticed the spring at the start in Casino Night Act 2 works differently in mobile vs Genesis Sonic 2 but before I heard it was an issue with the port I thought it was a me thing. I do definitely think the CH ports are better for newcomers, but for us that have these games as muscle memory the Genesis versions may be better (except for Sonic Cd. The original Sega CD version kinda sucks honestly imo)
     
  8. Kyro

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    I never developed a ton of muscle memory for the genesis games, i only initially played them through the ds classic collection, but the mobile port differences never massively stood out to me... UNTIL origins and the s3&knuckles remaster. That one i noticed all sorts of inconsistencies.

    I know that version is kinda just, a bit more messed up in general due to crunching but even I could tell that some things were wayyyy off. I dont think its bad at all, in fact in a few places it felt a bit better, but it was definitely a bit rough
     
  9. HammerKirby

    HammerKirby

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    Yea 3&K is definitely the worst out of all of them. I got crushed and died in places where I wouldn't on Genesis with the exact same inputs. When I said CH ports I mainly meant Sonic 1, 2 and Cd, because frankly theres still arguments to be made for Gen/MD 3&K even for newcomers.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2024
  10. Jaxer

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    My main issue with Origins' 3&K (aside from the music) is that the physics feel too... good?

    The Mega Drive original had numerous instances where physics would just completely change for a brief period (usually when getting off a level gimmick like an elevator or a speed booster), but the Origins version fixed all of this, and now Sonic always controls the way he should.

    This obviously is nothing but a good thing for newcomers, but it really messes with the muscle memory of someone who's gotten used to all of the original game's quirks.
     
  11. Brainulator

    Brainulator

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    I'm bugged at how there are mistakes that the remakes retained from the originals, such as Rexon's head respawning when you go too far away. Also, Labyrinth Zone at least still uses its REV00 object layouts.
     
  12. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    Was it changed in REV01?
     
  13. Brainulator

    Brainulator

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    Yes. There was a ring added to a hidden upper route in Act 1, and some enemies and a swinging spikeball chain were removed in Act 3.
     
  14. Kyro

    Kyro

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    i thought the mobile ports kept the added ring, i distinctly remember it and thought it was an addition to the mobile remasters rather than something fixed in later revissions
     
  15. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    I pretty much only play my Japanese cartridge anymore, so I guess I forgot there were more differences than just the visual effects.
     
  16. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

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    Side mouth has never looked good in 3D. Not once. I know there's some kind of tech SEGA has to swap between different models of different mouth placements on the fly depending on the camera angle, but if Shadow Gens is any indication, then no matter what they do, they're bound to run into hiccups and it's just not worth it, because when it goes wrong, it looks very wrong:
    [​IMG]
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    Even in 2D artwork nowadays, when they have characters facing the camera, they still have sidemouth:
    [​IMG]

    Even the inspirations for Sonic's design, Felix the Cat and Mickey Mouse, don't do this, so I don't understand why SEGA and fans are so hell-bent on cracking this code of trying to preserve sidemouth literally all the time. Is it really that important? It's not like Mickey's ears, it's not like we're losing part of his silhouette. SA2, Heroes, Boom, and Prime use centermouth almost exclusively, and they all look completely fine.

    EDIT: In hindsight, there are some moments where sidemouth works in 3D, but only in cutscenes, and even then, only with static shots.
    [​IMG]
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    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024
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  17. Brainulator

    Brainulator

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    Oh, you are not alone in this. This even leads to stupid errors like Super Sonic having two mouths in Lost World.
     
  18. Wraith

    Wraith

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    All 3 of these shots look fine, and the alternative(perpetual front month) flatten's sonic's expression a lot and preserve how he looks in 2D art at all. Sonic is not a real creature. He's a cartoon The less he is animated as if he actually exists the better he tends to look.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. kazz

    kazz

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    He should be able to do both depending on when appropriate like the Dreamcast days. His modern face being so stuck and stiff defies this supposed cartooniness.
     
  20. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

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    Really? You think frontmouth keeps these characters from being expressive?
    [​IMG]
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    No. No, no, no. It has nothing to do with frontmouth. It has to do with Sonic Team not dedicating the budget or the talent to the animation of these characters like a TV studio, or a better developer, can. For god's sakes, these people usually don't even actually animate these characters and instead rely on motion capture, and you want to give them the benefit of the doubt on facial expressions?

    I'm not even arguing for sidemouth going away entirely, because even Prime uses it on occasion, but you don't have the luxury of editing and cinematography during gameplay. When a dynamic ever-changing camera is involved, trying to make sidemouth work is a fool's errand.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2024