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Unpopular Sonic Opinions

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Londinium, Jun 17, 2022.

  1. BigTigerM

    BigTigerM

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    Would it be possible to elaborate on this further? I don't think I entirely follow.
     
  2. But Sonic was conceptualized in Japan first. Sega of America had no hand in Sonic's creation, just in how they decided to market the franchise in that specific region.

    Sonic wasn't designed to be one thing, but he has very clear origin point in one specific region that's served as the basis of the series since.

    Obviously the series was more popular in the West, but that's besides the point.
     
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  3. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Don't Forget! Try Your Best!
    Feels like we just had this conversation.
     
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  4. Londinium

    Londinium

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    I feel like we've been going in circles for the past 50 pages
     
  5. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Blue Spheres is awful.
     
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  6. KaiGCS

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    Sonic CD's special stages are the best of the four main 16-bit games.

    But I might like Chaotix's the best.
     
  7. Mana

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    The only special stages I outright dislike from the original Genesis games is Sonic 1s because the rest might have BS parts but they're ultimately skilled based, Sonic 1 is almost entirely based on luck.
     
  8. KaiGCS

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    Oh, if we're doing least-favorite, I'd have to go with Sonic 2. They're pretty easy once you get a handle on them, but they just take too damn long, and they're not interesting enough to make up for the time investment. 3D Blast Saturn is the definitive version of the half-pipe IMO, and the ones in Rush, Colors DS, and even Sonic 4 E2 are pretty great too.
     
  9. kyasarintsu

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    I always wonder how this series would have done if it made it to the western markets fairly unchanged. I always thought the western media (cartoons, comics, general aesthetic) was nasty and gross even as a little kid who didn't know anything.
     
  10. Considering none of that media has been relevant to the current state of the series outside of the odd reference or two for over two decades now, probably would have been more or less the same.
     
  11. KaiGCS

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    Yeah making Sonic vastly less popular with kids in the 90s by not providing them with any way to discover or engage with the series outside of video games definitely wouldn't have had any major repercussions.

    The Paramount movies are made by westerners and have a completely different setting and backstory from the games. They're going to be a defining take, and very possibly THE defining take, on what Sonic is for the next generation of fans, and that's going to have a huge impact on the future of the series.

    That was equally true for the non-game media in the 90s, 00s, and 10s. You can't discount the importance of stuff just because it doesn't fit game canon, which isn't even remotely consistent with itself.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2024
  12. Jaxer

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    I don't think that's what they were talking about.

    I'm assuming that what they were asking was "What if early supplementary material had been restricted by a very rigid Japanese direction?", not "What if there were no suppplementary material at all?".

    Also, it's worth noting that most of the comics and cartoons never left the Anglosphere, but the series still managed to become successful worldwide.
     
  13. KaiGCS

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    Fair enough, I guess I interpreted it that way because like... there's no way it really could have happened any other way?

    Sonic's in-game lore wasn't even consistent game-to-game, it was out of focus, they were very much making it up as they went along. Any adaptation would have had to build on a very sparse foundation. This was true of Japan's media as much as it was the West's; the manga had very little to do with the games, and while the OVA was closer, it still substantially changed and omitted a lot of things to fit the story they wanted to tell.

    Early-on, there was just no way a Sonic adaptation could have been "true to the games" without doing that, and any adaptation made by westerners would have, of course, been guided by their influences. I'm sure the early cartoons and comics DID have all kinds of guidance from Sega, you know? There wasn't enough on the page in Sonic 1 to sustain anything more than a video game plot, so making up new characters and lore and nailing down some sort of setting was down to the creators of these adaptations.
     
  14. Wraith

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    I'd argue that the 90s Sonic cartoons don't have anywhere near the amount of importance that the movies have. Most of the undue significance people attribute to 90s SOA content actually applies to the movies. The Sonic cartoons came along a year after Sonic the Hedgehog 2 was a smash success, lead into the "low performer" of the trilogy and existed more to cash in on an already successful brand if anything. Sonic was, objectively speaking, fine without the cartoons. It was doing well before the comics. A lot of places around the world only had the games and the series still became iconic.

    The movies popped up during a lull and supercharged the brand enough to convince Sega the character still had juice they weren't tapping into. There's a revenue spike and increase in scope you can directly attribute to those movies existing.

    To put it another way, the Sonic movies have already lasted longer and had more of an influence on the brand than AOSTH, Satam, or the comics ever did. That isn't a value judgement either. I would take a thousand SatAMs over another Sonic movie. There's just influence I can actually see here vs anecdotal evidence and nostalgia.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2024
  15. Shaddy the guy

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    So 90s promotional material that was more accurate to SoJ's vision wouldn't have had a drastically different reception than what we did get, yeah? I suppose the idea lies more in the legacy than the individual pieces. If the Japanese side had a more active hand in shaping those parts of the property, they might have had further-reaching effects on the brand as a whole? Even before they went scorched-Earth, most or all of AOSTH/SaTAM/Fleetway/Archie/Underground's influence was still localized exclusively to their own geographic region of creation.

    I guess the litmus might be the Pierrot OVA? That was obviously a JP product and the main two exports from it are Knuckles's hat and Robot Sonics dying in lava (and even that second one is still entirely in western material). I have no idea what the rights situation is on the JP side of that, but I sure as hell know Sara and Old Man Owl and Not-Quite-A-Furry President aren't showing up anywhere else.

    Sonic X gave us inhibitor rings, Cosmo as a potted plant and maybe two worlds as a theory? So that's a little more I guess, but overall the only really strong difference is that we can imagine some radically different cartoons and comics existing in the 90s if SEGA's American and Japanese branches didn't have all that weird shit going on.
     
  16. Wraith

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    It's hard to say if more JP accurate material would have moved the needle more or not. It may have been beneficial for things to be more cohesive in a Pokemon Anime kind of way, have some official Sonic content airing in dead zones and all that, and have something you could easily export internationally instead of having different media per regional office that no one making the games could possibly account for and tie into.

    They're trying to get closer to something like that now though so maybe we'll get to see it firsthand.

    My main beef with this discussion is that people underestimate the cultural hold the games had by themselves already, before a cartoon spinoff was even a thought in anyone's mind. DIC was shitting out video game adaptations left and right, but you'd be insane to attribute The Legend of Zelda's success stateside to the cartoon. Sonic was putting up comparable numbers back then and yet these discussions keep popping up. Why?
     
  17. Sega have gone on record to consider Sonic X it's own thing along with SATAM, and they're still more willing to reference that show than any of the anglosphere shows.

    I think it's pretty notable that the American cartoon references only started happening when the guy who worked on the American comics actually started working on the games, and even they're restricted to the English voiceovers.

    I feel like the comics, essentially being continuations of the American cartoons, had a role here. They were able to keep that specific continuity relevant well past the 90s and into the 2000s. That specific fanbase never left the series and just grew alongside the fanbase the games already had.

    Same with STC, which ran all throughout the 90s until 2001, and still has a fan continuation going to this day.


    The games were undoubtedly the biggest things, but the comics were running in parallel to them.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2024
  18. Antheraea

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    yeah like, growing up I remember knowing that the comics existed but I never went to any stores that sold them. I had seen a few of the cartoon episodes (of both the aosth and satam varieties) but...like....the impact they had was absolutely nothing compared to the impact of Sonic Adventure on me lol. if either of those things didn't exist, there wouldn't be much of a difference in my personal experience - the shows I watched back then were Sailor Moon and Pokemon.

    thinking on it, the OVA stuck more in my head more than the cartoons too, and we had that on VHS. I certainly watched it more often.
     
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  19. HammerKirby

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    The OVA gave us Knuckles as treasure hunter and even Metal Sonic's personality in Heroes. I believe Maekawa has said in some interview he liked the OVA and took inspiration from.it, but I don't know where to find that. Also, the Chili Dog thing came from AoStH, not SoA themselves.