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Unpopular Sonic Opinions

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Londinium, Jun 17, 2022.

  1. bombatheechidna


    Should’ve is more demanding than what was actually said which is “could’ve”. Evening Star did what they had to do. I know it’s not their fault Sonic Mania 2 never happened. They actually will be respected more because they have shown they can succeed without using the Sonic brand. It can still happen on better terms. I still want a Sonic game that looks like that. As for the “salty” term, I do not mean it the way you think I do. There are a large group of people in the US that use that word as a joke which I never thought I had to explain.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2024
  2. Wraith


    I've intentionally not drawn much of a comparison between Penny and Sonic because I believe the former deserves to stand on it's own and is better off not being judged against the expectations of the Sonic fanbase...

    But yeah, there's no getting around the fact that it's the Sonic game I've wanted for a long time in terms of mechanics, from the Mario 3D World levels of focus to the super involved scoring system. I don't really want to turn it into a competition because I think this game is worth more than that, but if it was a competition Penny would be shooting 3s.

    It's to the point where I find myself caring a lot less about the direction of the next Sonic game as a result. Go nuts, make the open world action RPG puzzle platformer hybrid of your dreams. The kids don't care about the arcade, so why should you?

    Do I wish they had gone through and made Superstars with Evening Star instead? Of course, but this game is about as good as that would have been so I haven't been able to dwell on it much since it's release. The hole in my heart is officially filled....Or it will be when they patch the collision anyway.
  3. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

    Professional Internet asshole Member
    I dunno. Clearly Penny is a stellar game, but something about it rubs me the wrong way, enough to make me hesitate purchasing it. Certainly it has the solidity that Sonic Team should strive for, but there's a sugary safeness to it as well that nothing except Sonic ever seems to shake. 3D World is actually an excellent comparison as I get the same "green cube with beveled edges" vibe from that game (no, I don't know how that counts as an emotion. don't ask me). I'm just more used to it from Mario.

    Maybe it's the visual style? Between Spark, Rascal and this, I don't know why unappealing character design is so prevalent with these 3D Sonc-likes.
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  4. Jayextee


    Unpopular Opinions™ Member
    Atro City
    Totally biased opinion here, but it's kinda hard to design a character anywhere near as appealing as Sonic, especially the classic look. The best character designer's most valiant efforts are going to pale in comparison.
  5. Sonic's never really had a set visual identity, which is good or bad depending on how you feel about it. But I suppose you can't really pigeonhole it in the same way you can a Mario game and that's part of the appeal for some people.

    Games like Penny I guess feel like they play it extremely safe by going with a visual style they know is going to go over well and not really ruffle feathers the way Sonic games tend to.
  6. Wraith


    The conclusion I came to is that Penny is like Sonic in all the ways that make Sonic uniquely great, and decidedly unlike Sonic in all the ways that make Sonic widely appealing. None of the stylish character designs, no real larger than life setpieces outside of the last stretch, and the story isn't anything to write home about either. Classic Sonic is pitching a cool fantasy to you alongside it's top notch mechanics wheres Penny is more concerned with one half of that equation.

    Because of that I don't think most of the modern Sonic fanbase will find it all that appealing. You have to be able to fall in love with a game for it's mechanics above all to really appreciate it imo. They're not a foothold to a wider universe or a means to end to engage with the characters here. They are the game with the characters and scenario sculpted around it, like the very first 3D games back in the day.

    Because of all that, I wouldn't call it safe, but a callback to a specific era that has niche appeal and thus a fair bit riskier than Super Sonic wrestling with kaiju. Both developments are arguably the developers following their heart, but only one's heart aligns with the popular mass media of the year.
  7. No amount of well crafted video game mechanics will ever appeal to a Sonic fan the way seeing him fighting against kaijus as Super Sonic will.

    That power fantasy aspect is a very important part of Sonic's appeal to the fanbase, arguably moreso than the game's mechanics.

    It's why a lot of Modern Sonic fans don't fuck with the current iteration of Classic Sonic, because it decidedly lacks that intensity.
  8. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

    Professional Internet asshole Member
    I mean. Maybe? But I'm not "the modern Sonic fanbase", every time someone praises Unleashed as the best I want to run over their hands with my car. I love every era of the series for its own reasons and the mechanical aspects of it are the strongest part of the Classic quadrilogy. I just find there's a certain seamless feeling to Classic Sonic's physics that comes across as..."held back" in Penny? It may literally be a difference of actual top speed. I didn't think Utopia set the world on fire as an example of "Classic Sonic in 3D" like everyone else did when it came out, but the sense of forward motion was stronger there.

    Maybe it's the fact that you actually do kind of have to roll to get past normal platformer speeds? That feels like a bit of a wall between the game and the more natural ramp-up that I'm used to seeing with Classic Sonic. If someone wants to correct me and you don't actually need to bring the yo-yo out to gain momentum, that would actually totally help (again I don't have the game), but little bits of the experience like that make all the difference.
  9. Wraith


    Penny has a little bit of momentum when waddling down slopes but it's basically worthless compared to her yoyo, yeah. I found that the mode switching along with the overall low top speed outside of tech make more precise movements easier, which then allows the developers to ramp the challenge up more in turn.

    So yeah, I see how that could be off-putting but I'll defend that decision personally speaking. It felt like the developers decided to use the fact that it's not Sonic as a blessing rather than something to work against it. The constant acceleration curve is something we're always going to expect from a Sonic game, but it's also caused problems in 3D that I haven't actually seen anyone tackle in a way that made mainstream players happy until Frontiers tied it to a slider.
  10. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

    Professional Internet asshole Member
    Well, that might be part of it at least. Even in 2D I would say Sonic has never been all that good for precision platforming. The 3D games just have even more trouble finding broad design sense to accommodate their movement system. Their idea of difficult platforming is almost always to just force Sonic onto platforms too thin to sustain him.

    If true, I think in a gameplay department that would make Penny appeal more to the Celeste or Super Meat Boy centers of my brain (or just the really hard parts of 3D Mario?). And fertile ground, because I haven't played those games in years and I probably won't do so again.
  11. Mana


    Good! Great! Awesome! Outstanding! Amazing! Member
    I wasn't a big fan of the art style either but it's a really good game. The first few zones are okay but it just gets better as it goes on and ends as one of the best 3d platformers I've ever played.

    I see more Kirby, Mario, and Ape Escape in Penny than I ever see Classic Sonic but they're similar in that if you learned the constraints of the character and how to take advantage of it you can do some crazy movement. And when you're playing and everything is going right it's a great experience.

    It's worth it IMO.
  12. HammerKirby


    HammerKeebi Member
    Safe art style? A lot of people have criticized the art style, so it's anything but safe. It's clearly quite divisive. It doesn't look like 3d World at all to me. To me it looks Dynamite Headdy in 3d. The art style is very surreal and filled with geometric shapes in a way like a Treasure game. To me the game is quite fun once you get a feel of the unique movement. It feels like a blend of 3d Mario, classic Sonic and Ape Escape (From what I've heard. Haven't got around to playing any of the Ape Escape games but the focus on dual analog controls reminded me of them.)
  13. Lambda


    Haven't beaten Penny yet, but I love it so far. Definitely built for speedrunning. I'm maybe (I'm guessing) halfway through the game so far, but haven't even touched the second half because I keep on replaying the levels in the first half. LOL

    Not sure where the overall art style hate is coming from? I guess people are getting hung up on the character designs... Like, honestly, I don't really love any of the character designs either (Sorry to any Penny devs who might be here...)

    BUT, I looooove the environment designs.
    Looks like environments designed for 2D sidesrolling 16 bit pixel art, but given a 3rd dimension! Quite cleverly, since they made nearly all surfaces matte (they don't make many surfaces have a reflective/shiny quality) , it sidesteps that "too-clean" "plastic" look that plagued New Super Mario Bros and 3D Land/World.

    Also, Penny's environments have a really creative use of colors. Very abstract and surreal. I love it.

    I guess that's my Unpopular Penny Opinion.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2024
  14. CharlaChale


    Little Dolly Member
    This is not my opinion but I saw some folks online debating whether Vector's classic or modern design is better. So what are you guys' opinions on the matter?

    Let's throw in Espio, too, for variety.

    As for me, my opinions are very malleable and I am easily swayed so I am not a good source of opinions sometimes.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2024
  15. Chimes


    The One SSG-EG Maniac Member
    Both good
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  16. Londinium


    People actually read these? Member
    Even in an apocalypse where Eggman takes over 99% of the world, Vector has to have that golden chain swagger.
  17. Kilo


    That inbetween sprite from S&K's title screen Member
    I personally have no preference over Vector or Espio's designs. They're both very solid and work in their own universe. My only wish is that classic Vector, Espio, and Charmy for that matter got used more often. I'd really like if Sonic Team's next classic game used the full roster, we got teases of it with Mania having Team Hooligan (albeit illusions) and Mighty and Ray, but classic Chaotix keeps getting left out. The classic universe would feel so much fuller having all like 15 characters in 1 place!
  18. charcoal


    Be Cool, Be Wild, and Be Groovy Member
    An unpopular opinion I've held for a while is that I like that the Wisps have stuck around, I think they're a really neat addition to Sonic's world. I think it's really cute that they're kept as pets and such, when theyre present as just a nonchalant thing I think it makes the universe feel just a bit more rich and connected.

    I also think its interesting that they provide a dichotomy of how Eggman uses nature vs how Sonic and co use nature, in Colors eggman traps them unwillingly in robots and capsules for fuel, but in contrast in Forces and IDW, Wispons are something that wisps help with willingly, due to their connection to their owners. It's also established that they can break out of Wispons used maliciously, so it doesn't contradict itself.

    The only place I actually dislike their use is Lost World, theyre just kinda there in that game, Forces gives them different abilities and uses than in Colors so it feels justified but they dont do much in Lost World so it feels kinda contrived
  19. Mr. Cornholio

    Mr. Cornholio

    It's really unfortunate that the only game that actually explained why they still stuck around after Colors was a mobile title.

    That was released after Lost World.

    That you can no longer obtain through official means.
  20. shilz


    getting my daily allowance of vitamin kk
    Wisps and color powers are a really cool magic system. Feels like they're underutilized though.