Knuckles in Sonic 2 isn't that much fun. Initially it's kinda amusing to skip all of Emerald Hill by gliding, but then the rest of the game happens and you realize that Knuckles' unique abilities are completely useless for the most part. By all accounts, the experience is pretty much just "Sonic 2 with a lower jump height".
Are there any particular moments of weakness from Sonic that strike anyone's fancy? They seem to be few and far between - I'm personally not too keen on Archie Sonic #175's 'Limit' moment, but Unleashed Sonic being disheartened by Amy's inability to recognize him hits a soft spot for me.
I quite like the "Limit" scene from Archie, since Archie's Sonic is a guy with much clearer flaws, he's not infallible (am I using that right?) even if he presents that way. But, much like most things about the guy, I don't think it would fit Sonic's characterization from the games. I don't think Sonic should have many moments of weakness, I don't think he's the kind of character to have that be something frequent. That thought process can be a slippery slope, though, and could make him boring. You just have to make his confidence endearing, I think. (Also don't beat the audience over the head with it, heehee)
I enjoy the back and forth scuffle between Eggman and Sonic, with the latter getting his butt whooped - The inclusion of the limit scene is absolutely exceptional, but what I mean to say is that it isn't too emotionally rousing. Archie Sonic getting pissy at Silver did way more for me in that department. Mmh, yeah, methinks I get where you're coming from - seems to be a fickle thing to balance, otherwise you'd risk alienating the audience. Curious though, what do you think's to be gained in having Sonic's moment of weaknesses be infrequent, if not wholly nonexistent? Also, ya did use infallible right! Edit: Despite the wording of my post, this is meant to be an open discussion - contribution is always appreciated, and I apologize.
I like the limit scene from a "dude he's losing it" perspective, but it's just one piece of the buildup to Eggman's beatdown, it's not the emotional catharsis itself. The hit comes from Sonic's total defeat. As for how it fits, it's not just Sonic, but Eggman too. Eggman is the evilest motherfucker who ever lived in Archie, and that's not nearly as true for the games continuity. Sonic breaking down into despair isn't something SEGA would want for him, but that's just as much because Eggman wouldn't be allowed to do anything bad enough to prompt such a thing as Sonic not being able to react to it. If SEGA wanted to break Sonic as hard as Eggman did in #175, they would have a new, more-evil villain be the one to do it.
Yeah, that's something I get behind! You worded it better than I could. I agree that the two Eggmen are nowhere near similar to one another - but while the former is far more volatile, it'd be neglectful to not consider the amount of active terror and malice that comes from mainline Eggman's actions. Within a relatively short timeframe (thanks SEGA for your vagueness), Eggman has went out of his way to: develop ecology-ruining machinations for pleasure, constructed entire zones with a treacherous effect on the environment, enslaved a variety of organisms usually as an alternatively harmful method of power sourcing [typical animals, wisps, plants, mind-controlled Deadly Six], actively weaponized all previous examples as a deterrent for Sonic, devastated an entire island via gravity manipulation and conflagration, disrupted the sanctity of life multiple times by spawning mythical icons [dark gaia/iblis/chaos], caused planetary chaos [blew up the moon in SA2, blew up the Earth in Unleashed, chained multiple planets together in Colours, started sapping the Earth of life itself in Lost World], utilizes makeshift firearms against intruders, creates metal mimicries of the main cast as a method of intimidation and aggravation, invaded just about everywhere, and my favourite is torpedoing and promptly imploding an escape pod for the purpose of explicitly direct murder. I could absolutely see Sonic Team pulling something off with the Eggman we have now, they just gotta do it right. Thanks to the existence of the IDW series, the potential of this actually occurring is higher than we might realize. Duo as a shape-shifting infiltrator could sow dysfunction among the cast, Surge could be a highly-OP moral foil (with added tragic backstory (or lack thereof!) to boot)... The possibilities are almost neverending if the IDW series' runtime becomes as long as Archie's has, the villainous output has been wonderful..!
It's all in the framing. Yes, game canon Eggman is a terrorist and a slaver, someone who mutilates the Earth and nature itself, but that's only the most literal interpretation of such. The language of the series is still that he's a mustache-twirling cartoon who can be much less of a real threat depending on the tone. Archie's Robotnik could sometimes be like this (mostly in earlier comics), but the Robo-Robotnik and eventual Eggman was a monster in both what he did and how the comic portrayed it. Main timeline Eggman is obviously terrible, but you don't quite reach the level of "murder Hope's grandmother right in front of her and then make a strange joke about it" anywhere but comic books. SEGA is pretty cagey on giving Eggman a kill count at all, Archie had him nuke an entire planet's population then run away to another world to do it all again.
I think Sonic X did the same thing with Eggman finally building a robot that could easily kill Sonic, and he temporarily succeeded! That in of itself is fine, really an obvious eventuality if this Eggman guy's supposedly so smart and resourceful. I just don't like how 1D cruel and confident they make him in Archie #175. I feel like Eggman should be a little more attached even to his arch nemesis. Like I can easily see him reacting with shock more than anything that his plan is going so well, not just evil gloating after THOUSANDS of previous failed attempts. Gun-touting SA2 Eggman even gave him a respectful farewell. Everyone complains about the edginess of the mid-2000s games but good god if this era of Archie ain't a bit too much. Isn't this just a few issues away from Sonic and Tails physically fighting over a girl who isn't even canon? Really I think the problem is you shouldn't need some melodramatic life-or-death situation to give Sonic a weakness. My ideal Sonic only hits the mark 95% of the time and is a dumb dudebro who needs Tails' help with more complicated stuff. I don't think Sega'd like that though. I think the writers are typically a bit suffocated by Sega's character mandates and so need to invent unnecessarily-apocalyptic scenarios like this just to justify Sonic failing.
If you ever want to know what would happen if Eggman actually defeated Sonic, just watch Megamind. By far the best Eggman movie ever made, makes the Paramount movies look kinda lame
Sorry for taking a bit, I had a hard time articulating how I felt and if my opinion really did line up with how Sonic's been written in the games before. I dunno if I feel like I'm being a little extremist here in how sad Sonic can be. So, Sonic's been described as disliking tears before, he doesn't like crying and he doesn't like it when others cry. (Not in a hateful sense, of course.) Any time he is sad or dwells on things, he tends to keep it hidden. Sonic's deep in thought about Shadow, Amy asks what's wrong, Sonic cheerfully replies with assurance, and when she's gone he returns to being pensive. (Though, importantly, not for much longer) After saving Amy from Dark Gaia creatures, Sonic leaves almost too quickly to be seen. That one scene in Sonic X where iirc he sheds like three tears, but nobody can directly see it, and the camera is positioned where you can't see his face either. I feel these kinds of moments work best when they're few and far between, I feel they're more impactful that way. Sonic's confidence and positive energy is one of his most defining character traits, and it's one of the biggest parts of why I think he's just plain cool. So I feel if they were to have him feel gloomy more often it would take away from his default demeanor, and those moments would stop being important exceptions to the status quo. Still having some trouble gathering all my thoughts together, so if you have any examples of Sonic not aligning with this perception I have, feel free to tell me. I'd like to know these characters to a tee.
Yeah I like to re-interpret the whole 'Sonic can't cry' thing as that he's technically capable of crying, he'd just never let his friends nor the audience see. That little interaction between him and Amy at the end of SA2 illustrates this perfectly, even if unintentionally. I think it makes Sonic more likeable/relatable if his carefree demeanor is more for the sake of motivating the people around him, not necessarily reflecting what he actually feels.
Oh, whoops, I actually disagree about that last part. I feel Sonic's carefree nature is genuine. He just doesn't like being upset about this or that, so he doesn't give it much attention. I interpret Sonic's assurance to Amy be for both her and himself. What happened, happened, he'll surely miss Shadow, (hah) but tomorrow is another day. That kind of stuff. It's his nature moving past his negative emotions, and luckily in a way I feel is in a natural manner. He isn't going "Woohoo!" immediately after, there's a bit of a transitional period. I don't really like it when Sonic is given traits to be more relatable to the player/viewer/reader/whatever. I feel like if Sonic had a more explicit and frequent range of emotions, it would make him feel less unique as a character, and make me feel less strongly about him. That isn't to say Sonic can't be or is never sad, angry, or what have you. He's been those and he will continue to have those times in the future. (I draw the line at outright scared, though, personally.) Apologies if any wording here confuses you a bit, and as always feel free to point out any contradictions in my interpretations.
Making someone play more Labyrinth is more evil than taking over the world, blowing up the moon, and shattering the earth combined.
I played Penny's Big Breakaway and cannot help but think wow this could've been Sonic Mania 2. I'm very salty now. This type of platformer would've been perfect for 90s-style Sonic.
I don't think that's an unpopular opinion at all. I think that's the common opinion, actually. Sometimes I do find myself wondering what Sonic would look like right now if they had stuck the course and made a follow-up to Mania, instead of forming their own company. Right now I just appreciate that we have both a pretty solid classic Sonic game and a wicked new 3d platformer in the same timeline.
I really don't like the sentiment that Penny should've been a Sonic game. Evening Star has done great things for the series, but they deserve room to breathe and develop their own image and IPs. Would I enjoy if Evening Star made a new Sonic game? Yes. But I'm in no hurry for it, Sega is at least putting out half decent content themselves. So to be 'salty' that Penny isn't Sonic just overlooks the work and creativity that went into it. Penny should be looked at as it's own game made by talented people, not missed potential by Sonic Mania devs. And I hate that "Penny should've been Sonic Mania 2" is considered a common opinion.
I'm actually really glad Evening Star are moving past Sonic and are allowing themselves to expand their horizon and come up with more original and creative ideas. They shouldn't have to be relegated to making Sonic games and being overseen by Sonic Team/SEGA.
