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Unpopular Sonic Opinions

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Londinium, Jun 17, 2022.

  1. bombatheechidna

    bombatheechidna

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    I think it’s about what do you want more consistency in canon, or unlimited possibilities in gameplay. You cannot have both.

    It would really be nice for Sonic Team to do something outside the box like bring Shadow, Blaze the Cat, Silver in the classic games. This is partially why classic 2D Sonic games are not favored like they used to be. While Present Sonic keeps bringing fresh ideas that may or may not work sometimes, the classic 2D games takes the safe route and stays mostly the same.

    Look at Sonic Mania. You only have 4 new stages. The rest are remixes of old stages. There were hardly any new characters besides the hard boiled heavies who are basically remixed egg robos. What more can we do to evolve that part of the series?

    I mean this is why a lot of 2D Classic style Sonic fan projects actually have modern features in them because it’s aiming to evolve 90s style Sonic vs keeping it the same for canon purposes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2024
  2. CharlaChale

    CharlaChale

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    Take this with a grain of salt, because I haven't played it since I was a wittle baby, but I think I prefer the Wii version of Unleashed over the HD versions. I really want to like Unleashed, really, but I can't get into it. I like the daytime stages, they're pretty darn fun so far, not many complaints there. But the Werehog kinda kills it for me. Again, I want to like it, but strangely I just find myself wishing I was playing the Wii version. The Werehog just feels off to me, I feel like the level design can just be mean at points, and I'm finding the combat to be overly long and repetitive. (For the record, I am stuck at Chun-nan, I just cannot beat that level no matter how hard I try, am I a wimp?) You can argue the same goes for the Wii version, but I find inherent fun in swinging my arms around so it's not much of an issue for me. The Wii version splits up all the Werehog levels, too, which I find very helpful, if only because it makes me feel like I'm actually progressing more. I also much prefer the way the medals are handled. I think screwing around in the daytime stages trying to find medals is funny so I like it there, but I don't like levels being locked behind something I feel really does not fit the level design. They keep stumping me in the HD version. I like the medals being a more direct reward for playing well, and them unlocking fun puzzles that net you some collectables.
    Somewhat unrelated, but I lost my copy of Unleashed for the Wii a long time ago. I would play the ps2 version but that thing's ugly! I got stuck at the final boss and never got to fully beat the game, so I refuse to listen to the credits music until I nab another copy someday and beat it fair and square.
     
  3. Wildcat

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    Whatever new things they wanna do they can do with the Modern cast. They’re the same characters. It’s the same world. There is no limit.

    If they want to give newer Modern characters 2D style gameplay this can happen now. You don’t need to separate the continuity and give them a 90s design to do that.

    Make a Modern game similar to Mania/Generations (in gameplay not storylines) where everyone plays as they would in the Classic format.
     
  4. There was a time when Classic Sonic was allowed to do new and exciting things and pushed things forward because it wasn't hampered by needing to take place in the past. Like even if you hate Modern Sonic (and rest assured, I prefer Classic to an extent) , surely you can understand why Classic Sonic not being allowed to do anything isn't exactly ideal?

    If the series has to keep adding new things over focusing on the established stuff and then that stuff is just forgotten about in the next game, what are we actually adding?

    At least if Classic Sonic was its own thing, it could go in its own direction without needing to adhere to what Modern is doing.
     
  5. shilz

    shilz

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    Obviously they need to bring Sticks back and give her a Classic variant.
     
  6. bombatheechidna

    bombatheechidna

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    Yeah but you cannot just abandon the people who like the Classic Character art style. There are people that actually prefer to play their 2D games with that art style. We want classic art style and modern features in a classic style. If we abandon the 90s character art style, then there will be a time where people will ask to bring it back again. History will repeat itself. Sonic Team will only benefit if they do not limit both sides of the series.
     
  7. Zephyr

    Zephyr

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    These "limits" that "the Classic series" has by virtue of having to take place pre-Adventure are being greatly exaggerated. They can, and will, introduce whatever the hell they want, and when we ask "well why aren't Trip and all the Chaos Emeralds' individual powers never referenced again????", we'll just be shouting into the same void that we do when we ask "why are things like Extreme Gear or the entire world being shattered never referenced outside of their respective games????" Because Sonic's world is fucking nuts and insane shit happens every day, to the point where just about none of it is of any consequence, Classic/Modern split or not. Most you'll get at this point is an Extremely Subtle reference in something like Frontiers.
     
  8. Wildcat

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    Then it’s just a matter of preferring the Classic/90s designs? That’s not really what the video was saying though. He was saying the tones were too different to coexist but it CAN actually be both. It has been. Some games are more serious and some are more lighthearted. That particular argument doesn’t make sense. The games don’t need to be 1 tone all the time.

    Either there’s 1 solid continuity or not. So if the designs never changed you wouldn’t care?

    Anything that has a long continuity is going to have changes made along away. In this case it’s aging the characters by giving them a design update. That’s not abandoning anyone though. That’s a creative choice to move things forward.
     
  9. bombatheechidna

    bombatheechidna

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    I mean if we’re talking Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic what also separates the two is the art styles. The classic art style goes hand in hand with the Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic comparisons.

    There’s nothing wrong with art preferences either so let’s not deteriorate the importance of art styles.

    This is why Sonic Team brought back Classic Sonic in the first place. I have no issue with modern art being in 2D but I would prefer my 2D games in the Classic style because I like it that way.

    What makes the tones not too different? Because I definitely see the different tones he’s referring to. So what if Sonic Team decides to put Classic Sonic characters in a new Sonic game and call it “Sonic Adventure 3”? It feels exactly like an Adventure game but has all Classic Characters and the old school checker board patterns that are in all of the levels but you get all the features of an Adventure game including the Chao garden. You’d be okay with that?
     
  10. CharlaChale

    CharlaChale

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    I feel like if they're doing a big Modern Classic split they might as well commit to it and split em off entirely, if something happens and the classic world splits off into its own timeline or something, it'll let both branches of the franchise not be inhibited by the other. And they can keep moving forward in their own ways. (If you can argue that evolving would defeat the purpose of having the Classic distinction, feel free.) I wish they'd stop treating the classic designs as just.. how the characters looked when they were younger, too. No matter which way you slice it, it makes no sense that Sonic just got green eyes one day. Could've sworn Amy's classic design has back spines, did Amy undergo surgery? Who knows!
     
  11. bombatheechidna

    bombatheechidna

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    When you follow one canon in a Sonic game, it complicates a lot of things. I’m not saying it cannot be done but we will have to miss out on a lot of cool opportunities for the sake of a plot. If you split the universes, then it allows you to reintroduce characters like Shadow but in a different way. You do not have to change the personalities. It isn’t like it has not been done before. Sonic X, Sonic SATAM, AOSTH, Sonic Underground, Sonic Boom, the comics are all different versions of Sonic.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2024
  12. CharlaChale

    CharlaChale

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    One time I saw some fanart of an AoStH version of Adventure 2, with Robotnik finding Shadow frozen in his grandfather's spare refrigerator. The point of this being I like funny alternate versions of characters.
     
  13. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    The wedding subplot in Sonic 2 was hilarious and one of the best parts of the movie, and I'm tired of pretending it wasn't.
     
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  14. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    If you want to evolve beyond Classic Sonic, that's what modern Sonic is for. It sounds like you just want a modern 2D game. And hey, so do I? But that's no reason to act like canon needs to be broken. I didn't even mean that nothing has any continuity between the classic games, it's not like that means it automatically needs to appear in the modern ones. You're making a mountain out of a molehill with this. The status quo for years was that a bunch of stuff in the Classic games just wasn't in the modern ones, and that didn't require a double-canon reacharound to explain why.
     
  15. Wildcat

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    I should have clarified I meant the overall art style not just the characters themselves.

    I see the different tones too...I’m saying there’s nothing wrong with having both in 1 continuity. Like seriously what’s wrong with a lighthearted game like Superstars and a more serious one like Frontiers exist as part of the same timeline and world? Characters can go through different things and situations just like people do in real life.

    No I would not be ok with the Classic designs being put in a Modern/Adventure style game. Not now. Not after having the Modern designs. If they had never changed the designs and it was consistent throughout then sure that would have been fine because it would not have been “a thing”.

    Now though to purposely replace the Modern look with Classic just to appeal to those who prefer it is a totally different context.
     
  16. No, it is not. The modern games have drifted completely from what the Classic games were. It's why they even made the Classic series to begin with.

    I'm saying you can evolve the series in a way that keeps it more in line with the series without going as far with it as Modern did.
     
  17. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Okay, what exactly is going further than Superstars but not as far as Advance or Rush?
     
  18. kazz

    kazz

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    Was Colors really so tonally unlike the classics that it justified the Generations split? Was Sonic 4, the game at least trying to be a straight-up classic game? These games had no trouble existing without Classic Sonic around at all.
     
  19. bombatheechidna

    bombatheechidna

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    How is that a different context? We are in a modern era with the Classic look in 2d games and you are suggesting that we just make a 2d modern game instead of Classic if we are trying to evolve the 2d games.

    So what are you suggesting Classic Sonic cannot be evolved? How about we just evolve both parts of the series. Modern 3d Styled games and 2d classic styled games. That way there are good games coming from both ends.

    What you are suggesting has been done before in the early 2000s. That wasn’t enough for the fan base which is why they brought back the classic 2d style. There will never be another modern 2d game. Before they do that they’ll just re-release those older titles or abandon 2D altogether and just focus on 3D games.
     
  20. kazz

    kazz

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    Yeah I'm not liking how brazen we're being about insisting why the Classic Sonic split came to be. That in of itself is subjective but what's even more subjective is this idea that the early 2010s were "too modern" and so is what justified it. There was already a very clear attempt to lighten Sonic's tone in that era with or without Generations.