Unpopular Sonic Opinions

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Londinium, Jun 17, 2022.

  1. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

    The Voice Maestro Member
    257
    269
    63
    Cyber City
    Mega Man Zero: The Definitive Dub
    Big the Cat is and has always been a cringy, awful character, and I want him nailed to the fucking cross.

    I can't believe this is an unpopular opinion now. I hate how the love for him has turned from ironic to genuine. I don't get it. What exactly do fans see in this character? He doesn't add ANYTHING to SA1's story, or even Sonic's universe as a whole. Nothing. "B-but he adds comic relief" by not being funny? Great idea. Isn't there enough comic relief in the game, what with all the wacky facial expressions, cartoony moments, and everything going on when Amy's onscreen? Why do we need a whole new character and his wacky hijinx on top of that?
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
  2. Palas

    Palas

    Don't lose your temper so quickly. Member
    438
    168
    43
    I'm... not a fan of Sonic Adventure at all, even though I think there's much to like. I include Big in the list of things to like, because he is the only character with a very close relationship with water, arguably one of the main themes in Sonic Adventure. Having to find a simple frog in levels you had sped through earlier is a way to see how the world is changing through the lens of someone who ultimately doesn't want to fight, but is affected by a world in upheaval (something Unleashed doesn't do as nicely, I think). His nonviolent nature gets interesting in his boss fight against Chaos too.

    Sure enough, this is all very cerebral and doesn't necessarily translate into enjoyment while playing as him, but I like that they did it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  3. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

    Member
    5,375
    368
    63
    The 3D MD soundtrack had a of that signature Mega Drive twang that the other Sonic games managed avoid entirely. The instrumentation is often complete wank. The melodies themselves bad a lot of long notes which, coupled with the instrumention, made the soundtrack very droning. The Saturn/PC soundtrack is absolute gold though.

    Another part of the problem is probably Jun Senoue. The dude's a legend when creating rock soundtracks that aren't limited by old technology. But most of his contributions to Classic Sonic have sounded like ass, going as far back as 3D (do we know what tracks he composed in 3K originally?). And it really shows with 3D, because the tracks from that he chose to remake for SA1 were all terrific in end. Whilst the S4E1 boss theme was never good and got rejected from 3D for a reason. Lol
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
  4. Prototype

    Prototype

    Member
    271
    54
    28
    I've noticed, especially with the latest uproar about music, that Sonic songs on Megadrive had as much to do with the mastering and implementation by some technical geniuses as it did with the melodies and rhythms themselves. Case in point, people who previously hated the "PC" soundtrack gained a new appreciation for it having seen an in-progress mastering for the hardware when the prototype was released, but still find themselves hating the versions offered in Origins.

    Even with time crunch existing in all periods of Sonic's history, I feel like there was more effort and care put into making something well-crafted back when SEGA had visions of grandeur, were looking to carve out a niche, and had all manner of artists, programmers, musicians, technicians, under their employ. Now they're predominantly a lame arcade amusement manufacturer in a world that doesn't have time, money, space or patience for bulky arcade set ups, and supplement their income by whoring out Sonic imagery to anyone with a big enough paycheck.

    I get the feeling that SEGA isn't really a place conducive to the game design/artistry process anymore, and as such there's no real desire to strive or achieve. There's no vision of "being the best we can be", just a vision of "can we get a passable product on sale by an arbitrary deadline determined by some other overpaid executive". The irony being that if they fired a few useless executives, they'd save any money lost by delaying a game and would probably end up with better final products in the end.

    I'm not really a fan of 3D Blast's Megadrive soundtrack, it does have an annoying twang. But in a similar vein to the Sonic 3 Proto/PC soundtrack issues, perhaps had time crunch not existed, or they had different sound programmers working on the implementation of Jun's 3D Blast music, they would be as beloved as the best of Sonic 3's.

    I'm a little biased when it comes to 3D Blast's music though, I grew up with the Richard Jacques tracks on the Windows 95 Port. I only ever rented Sonic 3D for Megadrive from the video store once or twice, which is why I begged my parents for the new "Sonic 3D BLAST" which I had seen on a school computer, having typed in "Sega.com" to see what would happen. I only knew of the Megadrive game as "Sonic 3D" so I was fairly convinced that "Sonic 3D BLAST" was even better.

    So when I actually got it, I played it endlessly. Those RJ tracks are burned into my skull. The Jun Senoue tracks less so.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  5. _oliver

    _oliver

    Member
    255
    108
    43
    Oregon
    I just like him because he's big goofy and adorable. He isn't really suited for a main role or anything but he'd be a nice addition as just a minor character.

    My man just wants to fish and hang out with his frog. Absolute mega chad.
     
  6. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

    Member
    5,375
    368
    63
    Big has always been a pretty fun, chill guy that just gives off good vibes. I've liked him since before he was a meme, and the only that time he ever got on my nerves was in X. Take TSR for example, and Big's the only one of heroes not to write off Dodonpa as some Eggman crony simply because he's a tanuki. He's just a nice guy. Big's just very different to the rest of the cast and his calmer demeanour that's totally removed from everyone else's drama makes for a nice side character.

    SA1 didn't get his comic relief right. But Secret Rings? Nailed it. Great use for a fun character. I also happen to really like that brief glimpse that we've seen of him in Prime.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
  7. kyasarintsu

    kyasarintsu

    Member
    239
    64
    28
    The only missing track from Sonic 3 that I'll miss is Ice Cap. It has a unique "lost in a big cold world" feeling that I think is rarely captured very well.

    I like Big for what he represents, but I think he's mostly just been kinda badly handled in the games. I'm not a fan of the way he's memed, too.
     
  8. Josh

    Josh

    Oldbie
    2,077
    1,021
    93
    USA
    I'll second everything you said (including about Secret Rings, no guilty pleasure to it, I love that game and I always have), but I'll up the ante one more level: While I've come to appreciate Forces as a whole over the past few years, Classic Sonic was *always* my favorite part of it. I wish he hadn't comprised such a comparatively small part of the game compared to Modern and the Avatar! A lot of his level design is particularly good, evoking the complexity and multi-path structure of the 16-bit games in a way that Generations usually didn't. Although, the trade-off was that Generations was still much better at being what it was than Forces, but still! I enjoyed playing his stages, and I enjoyed replaying them even more.

    And while of COURSE, the physics paled in comparison to Mania... I dunno, I grew up playing early 3D Sonic games (and Sonic fangames made by teenagers in Klik & Play), I can adapt to wonky physics without batting an eye at this point. :P
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  9. Fadaway

    Fadaway

    Member
    265
    58
    28
    The PRESS START BUTTON text in Sonic 1 is unnecessary. I quite liked how there was no instructional text on the original Mega Drive game's title screen, even if it was left off due to a glitch.

    As much as I love the mobile releases, I believe not being able to hit Eggman as he descends in GHZ to be a bad idea.

    Knuckles turning out the lights in Carnival Night Zone is a fun idea but it serves no purpose as you can still see everything. It would have been nifty to have it serve a bigger purpose.

    I really like the auto-scroller Tornado levels such as Sky Chase and Mirage Saloon act 1.

    Labyrinth Zone is my favourite level in Sonic 1 (Marble is a close second).

    Titanic Monarch would have been a great first level.
     
  10. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    2,273
    439
    63
    Really I think Big as a concept is a neat idea, a more chill character you can take a more relaxed approach on, though the way they executed his gameplay didn't...demonstrate that great.

    I don't even hate the fishing minigame per se, it just doesn't make a whole campaign and I feel maybe could have done with better physics so it didn't become tedious for some players, the total opposite of what Big was meant to represent (having Froggy the ONLY target you need to manually hook felt superfluous and left a lot of players at a roadblock if they practiced on the fish first).

    Like say Big was a mix of his Adventure and Heroes gameplay. The levels were short and breezy but had SOME degree of platforming and Big was allowed to just smash a few badniks and obstacles in the way for player amusement and THEN you got to the fishing as the end challenge, similar to a boss I guess.

    Big's character I don't even mind, even if I do think it varies on writers. Simple minded comical characters ALWAYS have this issue, because many just see them as 'dumb annoying comic relief' and thus write them that way. Big being comically simple but also a mellow and even slightly philosophical guy that keeps getting caught in the action is an endearing personality to me when done right.
     
  11. saxman

    saxman

    Oldbie Tech Member
    I believe what's going on there is he floods the stage with water, resulting in the power shorting out. Then you have to go and find the "breaker switch" to turn everything back on. So the real purpose from a gameplay standpoint is it forces you to deal with water.

    Edit: Although one would have to conclude it should just short again since the water hasn't gone anywhere, but I digress.
     
  12. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

    I like Sonic Advance Member
    1,485
    432
    63
    Lyon, France
    Improving my art and studying Japanese
    There's unpopular opinions and then there's just...weird opinions lol. Care to elaborate?
     
  13. foXcollr

    foXcollr

    Previously 'Hanging Waters' Member
    490
    406
    63
    US
    Hard agree on Big being cool. I don't think he's funny because of the "haha funni fat sonic character he so silly" meme, moreso because of what Psi said. He's just a regular guy minding his own business and he somehow gets lumped into this madness. He functions identically to a C plot in a movie or TV show, just a cut-away from the action that eventually gets tied into the main plot somehow.


    Shitty Opinions Round #2:

    - Rocket Metal deserved a chance.

    - Captain Whisker and Johnny were also really cool characters. I don't know how they would ever fit into the franchise form a narrative standpoint (this series has WAY too many characters), but I'd welcome them back.

    - Boss fights feel consistently weak across the entire franchise. Idk exactly how you'd fix them, but I don't think it's any secret that 80% of them are just damage boost trials.

    - While we're on Titanic Monarch, not a big fan. The level design is *chef's kiss* for a final Sonic stage, really a breath of fresh air compared to your standard blocky platforming. But I can't really get behind the visuals. I just don't quite like the setting or the color scheme.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
  14. Fadaway

    Fadaway

    Member
    265
    58
    28
    Just as a nice change of pace from the usual “beginner-friendly sunny tropical island stages” ...just to give it a bit of an in media res vibe. Seems like an exciting thing to do. Like, “Shit! this just escalated quickly.”

    Then, have the second Zone just be a breezy fun Zone just to confuse people.
     
  15. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

    I like Sonic Advance Member
    1,485
    432
    63
    Lyon, France
    Improving my art and studying Japanese
    As long as the plot accounts for this it could certainly be fun yeah.
    But the level design would have to be completely remade from the ground up tho :p
     
  16. BlueSkiesAM2

    BlueSkiesAM2

    Member
    292
    158
    43
    Denmark
    I can see that being cool if the story started at the end point of another adventure, where Sonic is about to defeat Eggman and then needs to escape. Something similar to the Unleashed opening I guess.
     
  17. Palas

    Palas

    Don't lose your temper so quickly. Member
    438
    168
    43
    Kinda like Sonic 2 (MS/GG)? I'd love to see that, and Sonic Forces tried to do that... but it could have been better. But I don't think Titanic Monarch is the best possible sort of stage for that. Not a fan of its level design philosophy either.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
  18. Brainulator

    Brainulator

    Regular garden-variety member Member
    Here's an opinion that's unpopular because I doubt many people have it: Ice Cap Zone Act 2's music. The PC/prototype/Origins track works better when you're on the top/outdoor routes while the final MD version works better in the underground portions. The former is bright and sunny and cheerful; the latter is darker and more secluded, I feel.
     
  19. Prototype

    Prototype

    Member
    271
    54
    28
    Do you ever fondly miss sticking to ceilings during a jump? ;)
     
  20. XCubed

    XCubed

    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    The Gen/MD Sonic 3D (Blast) music felt like a complete step backwards. Too many 8-but sounding pieces to what is actually more complex music.

    I thought it was a cool change to have water in 5 of Sonic 3’s six zones. It made me fear the older water zones less.