Trying to start debunking the "Generations of Sonic Fans" perception.

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Rhythm Raccoon, Mar 25, 2021.

  1. Overlord

    Overlord

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    On the contrary, I'd call it the exception. The tone of that line being the rest of the game would get you something more akin to Colours - Shadow on the other hand is in most of the game's scenes outside the stuff specific to Knuckles and Rouge. While it's not the worst that era got (hello, Shadow the Hedgehog), I'd far from call SA2 lighthearted.
     
  2. Josh

    Josh

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    So, is Breaking Bad self-deprecating because the narrative points out the flaws of its stars?

    To be clear, I liked the rest of what you said, and I think I better understand where you're coming from now, so thanks for taking the time to write it! I just still don't think that fits the usual definition of a story or a character that's "self-deprecating." BUT, we're arguing semantics at this point, so yeah, let's steer things back.

    Sonic Adventure 2 has a few light-hearted moments, but it also has a young girl murdered in cold blood by the military due to a government cover up. I wouldn't call it light-hearted, especially not in comparison to what the series had been before. ShayMay said it best.
     
  3. Laura

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    To its credit I think Sonic Adventure 2 does a decent job at its darker storytelling. It's extremely jarring when Gerald goes on a genocidal rant, but I think the stark way they present it with white dialogue and a grainy film footage is visually interesting and gets the atmosphere going. I always thought SA2 is like a 'so bad it's good' anime. But in a way where it's adorable in how awful it is (Sonic crashing into the president's car, the police going after Sonic because they think he looks exactly like Shadow), but also a lot of moments which are really over the top but are undeniably unironically cool (Sonic and Shadow's relationship, Sonic learning Chaos Control, Tails and Eggman's second boss fight, Amy's melodramatic speech to Shadow which is strangely effective, the genuinely excellent ending etc). I think for anything to be truly 'so bad it's good' it is to have a lot of moments which are unironically good and I think SA2 toes that line well.
     
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  4. Shadow has four levels, and Eggman is the one running the show until they get to the Ark.

    And most of Shadow's scenes are limited to his introduction and rivalry with Sonic. The game doesn't really get into the nitty gritty of his story until the 3rd act.

    The game is pretty balanced tone-wise for the most part, because its not until Gerald hijacks the plot in the last story where the drama is really played up.

    I think you're confusing self-deprecating as a word for self deprecating humor.

    I only used the former, not the latter. Kind of goes without saying Breaking Bad isn't in the same realm of storytelling as Sonic and its kind of weird to bring that up to prove a point.

    And of course SA2 is darker than what came before, but that doesn't mean the entire game is devoid of levity.
     
  5. And I never said they didn't, its like you said, its a story telling difference but compared to when the series portrayed them as action heroes, its stark contrast.

    Kids watch Sonic to do cool shit, not be "normal"
     
  6. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    Some people have expressed this kind of talk about characterisation and plots is tiresome, and I feel it that way to, but not for the same reasons. I've never had expectations for plots in games, I just accepted times change and they make products for the time when they'll be sold, so, in terms of this topic, I just think "So, they're trying shonen this time" or "Hey, they aimed for little kiddies with this one!" and I judge them individually for what they're trying to do on each occasion. No official game has made me feel like I felt when playing S3&K, yet what happens in most games isn't that different from that one, so I suppose it's more about the risks that came with cinematic cutscenes and voice acting: more developed stuff, more noticeable faults in development. And, of course, it's not like I'm expecting a Sonic game to win something like an Oscar, you know? Like Laura said, the good stories are usually in other game genres.
     
  7. XAndrew

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    SA2 Was pretty Lighthearted on the Hero side story. Some...dark moments here and there, but for the most part it was typical Sonic charm. It's mainly the Dark side story and the Last story that get's pretty dark. And...maybe a bit emotional on the Last story part as well. Too bad that emotion is now kinda ruined thanks to Sega basically ruining Shadow's character now, but you get my point.
     
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  8. I thiink Sonic Adventure 1 was a little more dark on Gamma's story killing him, honestly. lol
     
  9. Laura

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    I think Gamma's story is probably the best story ever in a Sonic game. It has its goofy moments for sure because of how much the game recycles animations. It's vague on how Gamma and the other E Robofs have sentience but he is happy to kill his brothers to save the birds. Is he just content to kill them for the greater good? It's deliberatelt glossed over.

    But I think it's probably the only time they did a dark and emotional story without getting too melodramatic (I think the same is true for Shadow's death). It can be cheesy, like when Gamma dies in this massive, heroic explosion. But the way Gamma reacts to Beta being rebuilt, for example, is very understated. He doesn't have this over the top resction and takes a while to process it. It's the same for his death, which is quiet and subdued in a way which is powerful. I also likr Amy and Gamma's scene. It's a bit OTT with Amys speech, but when Gamma lets her out, I like how he just kind of stands there and matter of fact tells her to leave as if he too doesn't really truly believe or understand why he,'s let her out

    The story has a subtle which is unusual for Sonic games.

    Sorry for the spelling mistakes. My eyesight is detereorating lol.
     
  10. BadBehavior

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    I second this. I wonder what secret ingredient Cubot added that made these incarnations so irresistible to some people.

    Edit: And I just saw that he already did make the thread he said he was gonna make, so forget I said anything.
     
  11. Don't sound too passive aggressive guys :V
     
  12. Overlord

    Overlord

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    Gamma's story isn't dark, it's tragic. There's a difference there. I'd happily take Gamma's story a dozen times over Shadow's.
     
  13. Laura

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    I'd say it definitely has its dark moments. I remember when I saw Beta getting taken apart as a kid that seemed really sinister :V . The very concept of destroying the E Series to free the birds is dark in itself.

    It's just more subtle and elegant than what came later in the franchise.
     
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  14. There's a lot of irony in thinking Shadow's story is too dark, but not Gamma's even though he's committing fratricide.


    I don't even think either are that dark to begin with, but that's neither here nor there.
     
  15. Hard agree. Not even in story, in gameplay too.

    "No, I don't care that sonic's not supposed to be a werewolf. He is now, and all I care about is how good of a beat em up werewolf he is"
     
  16. Hmm. I guess I don't know what needed to be debunked. The OP stated it almost exactly right as far as there being trends that seem to follow the 'generations' of sonic fans in the fan base. It's definitely a thing. But then he asked a question that didn't really need any answering. It's fine, we all do that constantly.

    If you ever thought that getting into the series at a particular time and growing up with a particular game precludes someone from liking something else....I just don't know why anyone would think that. But then reactions to the other extreme and pretending that the generational lines don't exist is also quite...off. they're trend lines, not regulatory lines.

    It's not like classic fans were born in and live in the united states of classimerica, so they can't ever understand or like other stuff outside of their own lands. There are quite a number of our citizens who were born here but later decided on dual citizenship in canadiadventure. Some of our citizens even prefer the boostlands south of our borders. And there are citizens in each of those lands who later in life became proud classimericans. And with classimericans pride comes your lot who are strong on border politics.

    This beautiful analogy works for any franchise, I'm pretty sure.:thumbsup:
     
  17. Wait, which question lol o-o
     
  18. Palas

    Palas

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    Didn't read the whole thread and so I don't know if the point I'll make is relevant, but it's coming from personal experience, so.

    The issue of generations of fans would only really apply if Sonic itself actually had generations -- and, for the most part, it may as well not have, at least in places not called the US or Japan.

    In Brazil, you see, the Master System was really popular, but the Mega Drive wasn't. So few people actually played Sonic 1 and 2 back in the day. 3&K had a PC version, but that was big news in, like, 1998. So we'd all hear about incredible 3D games like Sonic Heroes od Sonic Adventure DX while still getting our hands on Sonic CD for the first time. So there wasn't much of a difference, really. It was all the same Sonic, especially considering we had the cartoons, too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
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  19. Laura

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    I think this is a nice perspective. Most of the takes are very US centric I think.
     
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  20. RDNexus

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    In Portugal Sonic has always been a regular presence, either in games or cartoons.
    I never felt those generational gaps, but I also don't know many people from my age who still follow this franchise.
    Other than those fellow countrymen who also lurk around here, that is ^^"