Third Party Controllers

Discussion in 'General Sega Discussion' started by Black Squirrel, Jan 29, 2011.

  1. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    I'm trying to document as many third party Sega controllers as possible on Sega Retro. It's a challenge, not just because there are tons, but because nobody likes to talk about them on the internet. This is despite the fact that in a lot of cases, the third party alternative beats the official product.

    I've a preliminary list of control pads I've found on my travels across the net
    <a href="http://segaretro.org/User:Black_Squirrel/Control_Pads" target="_blank">http://segaretro.org/User:Black_Squirrel/Control_Pads</a>
    it's obviously unfinished

    there are more here which I've prepared for but haven't copied info from yet
    <a href="http://www.smstributes.co.uk/allcontrollerhardware.asp" target="_blank">http://www.smstributes.co.uk/allcontrollerhardware.asp</a>

    some <a href="http://segaretro.org/SG_ProgramPad_6" target="_blank">beasts</a> I've already covered. Most haven't been. However, I'm guessing that a lot of you will own third party controllers and can shed some light on the situation. e.g. what separates them from the official versions, the pros/cons, the manufacturers, names, release dates, regions etc. Better photos and box scans would be nice too.

    There are also several problems regarding older controllers, specifically those for the Sega Master System. It's a well known fact that a lot of controllers are interchangable with other computers (and consoles) of the day, which could mean there's acually a lot more Master System-compatible joysticks than expected. I've spotted arcade sticks which have half a dozen leads for different consoles so things are very confusing.
     
  2. MathUser

    MathUser

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    I always wondered how the turbo touch played cause I used to get sore thumbs on games.
     
  3. Ritz

    Ritz

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    [​IMG]
    Good lord. Joysticks are phallic enough as it is without H.R. Giger's sordid influence.

    Can't believe you missed this legendary cock 'n balls Saturn disaster:
    [​IMG]

    EDIT: While surely a shit alternative to the real thing, I'm really digging the button layout on that <a href="http://segaretro.org/images/c/cc/SunSaturn_Pad.jpg" target="_blank">SunSaturn Pad</a>. Kind of wish one of the later consoles adopted it.
     
  4. Dr. Kylstein

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    <!--quoteo(post=552704:date=Jan 29 2011, 04:48 PM:name=Black Squirrel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Squirrel @ Jan 29 2011, 04:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=552704">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are also several problems regarding older controllers, specifically those for the Sega Master System. It's a well known fact that a lot of controllers are interchangable with other computers (and consoles) of the day, which could mean there's acually a lot more Master System-compatible joysticks than expected. I've spotted arcade sticks which have half a dozen leads for different consoles so things are very confusing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Here's <a href="http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=controls:sega_atari_msx_x68000" target="_blank">some information on different two button DE9 pinouts</a> that might be helpful. There are some others on that wiki that aren't included on that page.
     
  5. 0r4ng3

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    I'm going through an unsorted Dreamcast folder at this moment, so I have a few images that might help. I'm guilty of not keeping most of the 3rd party controllers I've come across, but there are a few that managed to survive.

    There are three ASCII controllers, grey, blue and black. They all have the same model no. ASC-1301P. I don't think there's any difference between versions besides the recolours. It only has one add-on slot and has rumble built in on the back (the little switch you see at the top right enables or disables it). These are very good.

    ASCII Pad FT
    <a href="http://i53.tinypic.com/qpnzhw.jpg" target="_blank">http://i53.tinypic.com/qpnzhw.jpg</a>
    <a href="http://i54.tinypic.com/kbr6h2.png" target="_blank">http://i54.tinypic.com/kbr6h2.png</a> (complete bundle)
    <a href="http://i52.tinypic.com/33pdezn.jpg" target="_blank">http://i52.tinypic.com/33pdezn.jpg</a> (vmu coupled)

    ASCII Pad FT (CAPCOM Version) – black
    <a href="http://oi55.tinypic.com/2vacx1s.jpg" target="_blank">http://oi55.tinypic.com/2vacx1s.jpg</a>
    <a href="http://oi51.tinypic.com/23kywif.jpg" target="_blank">http://oi51.tinypic.com/23kywif.jpg</a> (box)
    These guys made a feature about this one here:
    <a href="http://the-dreamcast-junkyard.blogspot.com/2007/10/new-controller.html" target="_blank">http://the-dreamcast-junkyard.blogspot.com...controller.html</a>

    ASCII Pad FT (SNK Version) – blue
    <a href="http://oi51.tinypic.com/2ms4npd.jpg" target="_blank">http://oi51.tinypic.com/2ms4npd.jpg</a>
    <a href="http://i55.tinypic.com/2qu64gh.jpg" target="_blank">http://i55.tinypic.com/2qu64gh.jpg</a>

    There is a very similar version, the <a href="http://i54.tinypic.com/1jkftl.gif" target="_blank">FIGHTING PAD DC-212</a> and here's a better shot of the <a href="http://i55.tinypic.com/k18mrm.png" target="_blank">box</a>. Are they a western release? They look the same and they have a built-in rumble as well. I don't know as I've never owned one, and even if I have a standard knowledge on the official stuff, I have even less for the 3rd party.

    There are other colours of the Madcatz: <a href="http://www.unitedgame.com/prodimages/dreampadpurple.jpg" target="_blank">purple</a> and <a href="http://www.unitedgame.com/prodimages/dreampadgreen.jpg" target="_blank">green</a>. There are also other colours for the Performance: <a href="http://cdn3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/143/099/069/rTyL.jpg" target="_blank">red</a> (that is red, not orange, as can be seen <a href="http://www.unitedgame.com/prodimages/dreamcastconsolePAK.jpg" target="_blank">here</a>) and a <a href="http://cdn2.iofferphoto.com/img/item/143/099/071/M7uL.jpg" target="_blank">green</a> one.

    The Nyko controller is called Dream > Master and <a href="http://www.ioffer.com/I/NYKO-DREAM-MASTER-ADVACED-DREAMCAST-CONTROLLER-98747539" target="_blank">here's a few more shots of it</a>. There was one guy that <a href="http://www.nuclearplayground.com/joysticks/hack_dc_dreammaster.html" target="_blank">opened it up</a>. That last is called Quantum FighterPad. <a href="http://www.unitedgame.com/prodimages/DREAMCASTQUANTUMPAD.jpg" target="_blank">Here's a shot of the box.</a>
     
  6. Ritz

    Ritz

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    <!--quoteo(post=552886:date=Jan 30 2011, 02:45 AM:name=0r4ng3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (0r4ng3 @ Jan 30 2011, 02:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=552886">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ASCII Pad FT (CAPCOM Version) – black<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Drool.
     
  7. I took these old pics of the Arcadian Joystick for Genesis a while ago;

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    These used to be in eBay by the droves. They're pretty sweet arcade sticks - Someone who has a better webcam should try taking pictures. <_>
     
  8. Maxd

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    My parents threw it out a few years ago, but I once had a Sega Genesis controller that had a yellow control nub like the NES Advantage controller, along with turbo buttons with red switches. Can't find a pic of it atm though...
     
  9. That description sounds like the Turbo Touch 360 with the empathis on yellow controls and red switches.
    [​IMG]
    Is this what you were referring to? the touch-sensitive joypad was so shitty on that thing!
     
  10. Maxd

    Maxd

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    Kiddo: that's it, and yes it was shit.
     
  11. Meat Miracle

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    I used to have a transparent 6 button turbo pad, it had the shape of a 3 button pad, and the turbo switches were colored red/yellow/blue I think. In pairs maybe. It was a long time ago.
     
  12. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    IDENTIFY
    <a href="http://segaretro.org/File:Unknown_MDControlPad.jpg" target="_blank">http://segaretro.org/File:Unknown_MDControlPad.jpg</a>
    <a href="http://segaretro.org/File:Unknown3.jpg" target="_blank">http://segaretro.org/File:Unknown3.jpg</a>
    <a href="http://segaretro.org/File:Unknown_Pad_2_MD.JPG" target="_blank">http://segaretro.org/File:Unknown_Pad_2_MD.JPG</a>

    There's also an extremely awkward joystick that keeps popping up - the Competition Pro 5000 series. Making sense of it is difficult and I'm not entirely sure if there's compatibility with Sega consoles, but if there is... <a href="http://jope.fi/comppro.jpg" target="_blank">there's a lot</a> (and that's not all of them).
     
  13. LocalH

    LocalH

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    <!--quoteo(post=554010:date=Feb 2 2011, 10:59 AM:name=Black Squirrel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Squirrel @ Feb 2 2011, 10:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=554010">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's also an extremely awkward joystick that keeps popping up - the Competition Pro 5000 series. Making sense of it is difficult and I'm not entirely sure if there's compatibility with Sega consoles, but if there is... <a href="http://jope.fi/comppro.jpg" target="_blank">there's a lot</a> (and that's not all of them).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't know if there are any versions with full compatibility, but the Competition Pro series was primarily designed to be compatible with Atari 2600-style controllers. I don't know if there are any with two-button support, however.
     
  14. Tiberious

    Tiberious

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    <!--quoteo(post=553242:date=Jan 31 2011, 12:47 PM:name=Kiddo Cabbusses)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kiddo Cabbusses @ Jan 31 2011, 12:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=553242">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I took these old pics of the Arcadian Joystick for Genesis a while ago;

    [image]

    [image]

    These used to be in eBay by the droves. They're pretty sweet arcade sticks - Someone who has a better webcam should try taking pictures. <_><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    I can confirm those are good sticks. They're being sought now for modification into current-gen console use as they use actual Happ/iL parts.

    If you still have it, could you open it up (I'm almost positive the back can be take off, which would be enough) and show some pictures of the inside? I'm sure I'd be able to identify the parts if you did this.
     
  15. 0r4ng3

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    <!--quoteo(post=554010:date=Feb 2 2011, 03:59 PM:name=Black Squirrel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Squirrel @ Feb 2 2011, 03:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=554010">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->IDENTIFY
    <a href="http://segaretro.org/File:Unknown_MDControlPad.jpg" target="_blank">http://segaretro.org/File:Unknown_MDControlPad.jpg</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <a href="http://www.mega-drive.net/hardware/zubehoerpads.htm" target="_blank">Recoton</a>. Some guy made a compilation and <a href="http://turso.terra.com.br/showthread.php?t=58307" target="_blank">lists it</a> too (at one point he had the photograph as well, you can see it still in image search). This is what he says: It's the american version of the Dynapad from Dynacom. It has all the fuctions of the six-button controller, but it has a slow motion button. Whether this information is accurate I don't know.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://segaretro.org/File:Unknown_Pad_2_MD.JPG" target="_blank">http://segaretro.org/File:Unknown_Pad_2_MD.JPG</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <a href="http://www.classicgamesource.com/proddetail.php?prod=6buttongens" target="_blank">Performance - NTSC-U</a> maybe.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's also an extremely awkward joystick that keeps popping up - the Competition Pro 5000 series. Making sense of it is difficult and I'm not entirely sure if there's compatibility with Sega consoles, but if there is... <a href="http://jope.fi/comppro.jpg" target="_blank">there's a lot</a> (and that's not all of them).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I don't think they are.
     
  16. LocalH

    LocalH

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    <!--quoteo(post=554338:date=Feb 3 2011, 05:07 AM:name=0r4ng3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (0r4ng3 @ Feb 3 2011, 05:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=554338">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=554010:date=Feb 2 2011, 03:59 PM:name=Black Squirrel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Squirrel @ Feb 2 2011, 03:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=554010">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->IDENTIFY
    <a href="http://segaretro.org/File:Unknown_MDControlPad.jpg" target="_blank">http://segaretro.org/File:Unknown_MDControlPad.jpg</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <a href="http://www.mega-drive.net/hardware/zubehoerpads.htm" target="_blank">Recoton</a>. Some guy made a compilation and <a href="http://turso.terra.com.br/showthread.php?t=58307" target="_blank">lists it</a> too (at one point he had the photograph as well, you can see it still in image search). This is what he says: It's the american version of the Dynapad from Dynacom. It has all the fuctions of the six-button controller, but it has a slow motion button. Whether this information is accurate I don't know.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Heh, I had no idea Recoton made gamepads. Only thing I ever owned of theirs (assuming it's the same company) was an aftermarket C64 power brick (which was MUCH more reliable than the stock one).
     
  17. dsrb

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    I can't offer anything more constructive than to say I liked this one I had (not my pic):
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Dr. Kylstein

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    I wanted to avoid insulting anyone's knowledge, but I'm starting to get the impression that not many people know there were multiple incompatible DE9 two-button controller types:
    <!--quoteo(post=552812:date=Jan 29 2011, 10:58 PM:name=Dr. Kylstein)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dr. Kylstein @ Jan 29 2011, 10:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=552812">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's <a href="http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=controls:sega_atari_msx_x68000" target="_blank">some information on different two button DE9 pinouts</a> that might be helpful. There are some others on that wiki that aren't included on that page.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><a href="http://www.epanorama.net/documents/joystick/tvgames.html" target="_blank">Atari 7800 is another not in that chart.</a>
    I haven't seen any clear mistakes yet, but people have been referring to "two button support" as if it where homogeneous. No offense folks, I just want to make sure this is known.
     
  19. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Sega's own two button <a href="http://segaretro.org/File:ControlStick_SMS_PT_Box_Front.jpg" target="_blank">Control Stick</a> claims compatibility with the usually one-button Commodore 64.

    Perfectly reasonable to assume some third-party two-button Commodore 64 controllers may work with the Master System. I don't know if they all do, so hence the question. All this stuff should be on Sega Retro, but it isn't, and I'm only one man.
     
  20. LocalH

    LocalH

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    The common thread amongst all types of multi-button DE9 support is the original Atari 2600 standard. I have no idea if ANY Competition Pro sticks include ANY type of two button support. The only thing new to me on that page is the Japanese standard, so basically when I said "two button support" I meant the SMS/Amiga standard (which of course is the same in terms of button-to-pin mapping, only difference is delivery of +5V). In the majority of non-Japanese areas, SMS/Amiga "two-button support" is the only thing likely to be encountered, especially in Europe where the Competition Pro series of sticks were widely popular (being directly compatible with Atari 2600, C64, Amiga, ZX Spectrum via Kempston interface, and probably other systems not classed with these that I'm forgetting). If any of those Competition Pro sticks are Amiga two-button compatible, then it would be a fairly simple hack to relocate the +5v line and make it 100% compatible with the SMS.

    Squirrel: All two-button (and more) controllers that are based off the original 2600 standard will work on any such system. Additional buttons will not work, however. For years I used a three-button MD pad on my Amiga (using buttons B and C as 1 and 2 respectively). The only real exception I know of is the SMS/MD controller being unwise to use on a C64 for extended periods of time - it works normally, but there is danger of damaging the CIA as the controller pulls signals high when not used, and thus extended use of such a controller can cause premature wear on the CIA chip itself and potentially damage it over time. This is fixable by putting diodes between the control lines. The C64 has no support for two-button joysticks. If it's primarily C64/Atari 2600 compatible and has two buttons, then both buttons are internally wired the same. This can be tested simply by using both fire buttons in a game.